Not so pretty but full of toys
Written: Aug 06 '03 (Updated Jun 22 '05)
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Product Rating:
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Pros: Available features, roominess, interior versatility, most clever third row, easy handling, refinement
Cons: Awkward styling, recalcitrant powertrain, slick tires, rear seats a bit low, availability, pricey
The Bottom Line: Minivan buyers attracted by Toyota’s reputation for reliability or who want as many features as possible will be happiest in the Sienna. Especially if they lack an aesthetic sense.
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| mkaresh's Full Review: 2004 Toyota Sienna 2WD |
Logic suggests that Honda and Toyota should dominate the minivan segment. They excel at creating refined, comfortable, and reliable transportation. This fits family sedan buyers’ top priorities, and the Accord and Camry dominate that segment. It even more fits minivan buyers’ top priorities, yet until recently neither Honda nor Toyota sold many minivans.
Initially, both introduced minivans distinct from the norm established by Chrysler. The odd, egg-shaped Toyota Previa powered its rear wheels with a four cylinder laying on its side under the floor. (As did the boxy, short-wheelbase Toyota Van before it.) The first Honda Odyssey was far smaller than a Chrysler and used conventional doors instead of sliders.
Honda and Toyota tend to excel at learning from their mistakes. In 1998 Toyota introduced a much more conventional minivan, the Sienna. Like the 1996 Chrysler, it offered sliding doors on both sides. What it continued to lack was size. The powers that be back in Japan must have had trouble understanding why Americans would want a vehicle as large as Chrysler’s extended wheelbase vans. Or they hoped to cover the market with one van rather than Chrysler’s two. So the Sienna fell between Chrysler’s standard and extended wheelbase vans in size (and was closer to the standard Chrysler in interior room). It sold better than the Previa, but did not set the segment on fire.
That was left to the 1999 Honda Odyssey, which thoroughly trumped the Sienna. (The link goes to my review of the 2000 Odyssey. For my review of the revised 2003, click here.) Compared to the 1998 Odyssey, the new one had seven inches more wheelbase, fourteen inches more length, and five inches more width, making it roughly the same size as the long Chrysler vans. It traded a 2.3-liter four for a 3.5-liter six, enabling the Odyssey to be among the quickest minivans on the market as well as the longest. Finally, the new Odyssey retained the previous version’s most popular feature: a third-row seat that folded into the floor, so it did not have to be removed to enlarge the cargo area. Combining the Chrysler’s size with Honda’s disappearing seat and reputation for reliability, the new van proved very popular. Until recently there were wait lists for the van, and discounts were impossible to come by. A second plant was recently added, bringing supply closer to demand.
Intent on further increasing its share of the American market, Toyota appears to have put an extreme amount of effort into making the second-generation Sienna the best minivan for “everyone.” With few exceptions, they have cast any concerns they might have had about effort, cost, and product complexity aside. The new Sienna combines the best features of the segment leaders, and adds a few of its own. From Chrysler, the Sienna takes its basic size, dual sliding doors, power liftgate, available all-wheel-drive, and (in the XLE) a console that snaps into either the first or second row. From Honda, it takes an available navigation system, disappearing third row, second row captain’s chairs that slide together to form a bench, and (in the CE and LE) a foldaway tray table in the first row. From the Ford Windstar, it takes a fish-eye mirror above the regular rear-view mirror to keep an eye on kids in the back seat. From GM, it takes power sliding doors, available three-seat second row, second-row seats that flip forward to increase cargo area (and that can be removed for even more), and DVD-entertainment system. From the Mazda MPV, it takes roll-down windows in the sliding doors. (Although many of these features now appear on most minivans, I have listed the manufacturers that pioneered them.) To these features, Toyota has added a 60/40 split to the disappearing seat, a second-row center seat that slides further forward to place a child closer to the first row (in eight-passenger models), a front passenger seatback that folds forward (in all but the CE), available three-row side curtain airbags, available sunshades in the back rows (XLE only), an available rear-view camera (ditto), dynamic cruise control (XLE Limited only), and available surround sound audio system. I’m sure I’ve left some key features out, but you get the idea.
For the most part, if another minivan offers something, then the Sienna does as well. The main exception involves a few features on the recently introduced Nissan Quest. On the Quest (which has curtain airbags standard), the second row seats also fold flat, glass roof panels in all three rows are available, and a two-screen entertainment system is available.
On top of the extra content, the new Sienna is much larger, having gained five inches in wheelbase, six in length, and four in width. Interior volume has increased by 45 percent. These gains make it roughly the same size as the Chrysler and Honda. The new Nissan is larger still on the outside, but similar in size on the inside.
It took a couple of months for me to find a Sienna to test drive. Dealers cannot keep them in stock. Most that come in are already sold. If they are not, they are generally the base CE model. This was the one I finally got my hands on, so I cannot relate how all the bells and whistles work. The basics are all present in the CE, though: power windows and locks, dual sliding doors, anti-lock brakes, rear A/C, and the same seats and powertrain found in every Sienna. Despite its lesser popularity compared to the LE and XLE, I can see how many minivan buyers would need nothing more.
Note: This review is of the base trim CE. I have now also driven and reviewed the XLE. That review can be found here.
Toyota Sienna Reliability
Want better reliability information? Want to really know what difference it will make if you buy a Toyota Sienna rather than something else? It's coming in the form of "times in the shop" and "days in the shop" stats. From these you might learn that your first choice, compared to your second choice, is likely to make 2.7 extra trips to the shop in its first five years. You might decide its advantages compensate for this, or you might not. Either way, you'll be able to make a much better informed decision.
To gain access to this information you have a choice: sign up to help provide the data now or pay $24.95 later. For the details, visit my website, www.truedelta.com.
Styling
For reasons that escape me, most people fail to recognize that Toyota’s are ugly. Reflecting the power of engineers within the company, the proportions of Toyotas tend to be awkward and styling details strange. The new Sienna is no exception. The front end is Prius on steroids. I imagine it looks safe, even friendly. But to me it mostly looks dull and frumpy, with the same sort of roundness that killed the 㥨 Ford Taurus. The triangle that bisects the grille adds some Franco-Italian flavor to a market that lacks cars from those nations. The side view is passable, marred mostly by the overly round front end and a general lack of imagination. The rear end retains the horizontal taillamps that always looked very wrong to me on the first Sienna. However, this time they are integrated into the surrounding panels: the d-pillar flows cleanly into the taillamp in the side view, and the taillamps flow into the license plate depression. So it’s an improvement over the old Sienna. Actually, from all angles it’s an improvement over the hopelessly frumpy old Sienna, if still far from the best-looking minivan out there. That honor as I see it goes to the Chryslers for elegance and the new Nissan for sportiness, with the Honda a nice clean design.
Interestingly, Toyota’s lack of aesthetic sense extends to brochure design. The color they chose for the van on the cover is gold, as old and dull a color as you can get. Easily the least preferred color among people with a strong pulse. Inside the brochure they show the gold van some more and a white one as well. Are they trying to make the Sienna look as boring as possible? Maybe so.
Inside the Sienna’s styling is thoroughly conventional and certainly acceptable.The only unusual element is a dash-mounted transmission shifter. In this location the shifter remains out of the way while being easier to use than a conventional column shifter, so it makes sense. At least in Siennas without the navigation system (and its flat panel display) the controls are logically arranged, well-labeled, and easy to reach and use. As in other Toyotas, the materials look and feel top-notch, even in the base CE I drove. I didn’t even mind the seat fabric, which tends to be awful in base models.
Update 12-2003: A drive in the 2004 Honda Odyssey led me to recognize how much nicer the interior styling and materials are in the Sienna. The Toyota clearly leads the segment in this area. Ultimately, in my review of the 2004 Odyssey I recommend waiting a year if possible to see what the redesigned 2005 Odyssey will be like. I expect a much nicer interior, among other enhancements. Even now the Odyssey remains my favorite.
Accommodations
It’s been a couple of years since I drove the Chrysler, but my impression is that I preferred its front seats to those in the Sienna. The Sienna’s are still quite comfortable owing to a good basic shape, with a well-defined butt pocket. They’re softer than those in the Honda, which in turn are softer than those in the new Nissan. (You sit on top of rather than in the last.) With leather the Sienna’s seats might be as firm as the Honda’s (which I sampled in leather.) Chrysler’s seats are similarly soft, but provide better lateral support, which I like but other people might not as they make getting in and out a bit more difficult.
As in any mainstream minivan, the driver’s sightline is well over the dash, affording an excellent view forward. In the Sienna, visibility all around is quite good, with no unusually thick pillars to get in the way. I had no trouble backing up such a large vehicle, but can see how the rear-view camera might help ensure that no short objects are immediately behind the van.
Unlike in some other minivans, adjustable pedals are not offered. However, a steering wheel that telescopes as well as tilts is standard even on the CE.
The second-row seats are also well shaped, but as in most other minivans they and the flatter, firmer, less comfortable third-row seats are closer to the floor than I’d like. On paper there is plenty of legroom, but I find I cannot get comfortable because the seat height forces me to either let my knees flop to the side or to stretch my legs out even farther than the generous amount of space between rows allows. I suppose they are low either to keep their weight down, to ease folding, or to better suit children. Based on my memory, the current, post-2002 freshening Odyssey did best on seat height. I felt most comfortable in the second and third row of that van. The Chrysler has comfortable seats, especially the second-row captain’s chairs, but as in the Toyota I found them a bit too close to the floor. In the Sienna the second row seats can be adjusting fore-and-aft to trade off legroom between the second the third rows. Given the seat height, it’s not possible to give fully adequate legroom to adults in both rows. A common issue, but one I’d like to see resolved.
Both second- and third-row seats recline in steps. This could be easier to do, though, especially in the latter.
For access to the third row passengers can either squeeze between the second-row seats or fold them forward. The latter is easy enough to do. The sliding doors even without the power feature open and close smoothly and easily.
Because the third row is split 60/40 it is easier to fold into the floor than that in other vans with foldaway seats. It also helps that the seats do not flip over in the process. Just fold the seatback forward, then use a tether to pull the seat back into the well. The seats are countersprung to make setting them back up nearly as easy. Unlike in the Nissan and Honda, the third-row headrests retract into the seatbacks; they do not have to be removed before stowing the seat. Smaller adults without a great deal of upper-body strength will vastly prefer these.
My test of the Nissan was the first to cause me injury, courtesy of that third-row seat. With the Nissan, you must pull hard on a tether to flop the heavy-third-row bench over and into the hole. As in the Toyota, a loop is provided to make pulling the tether easier. Alas, I did not withdraw my fingers from this loop as the seat descended, and said fingers were pulled into the well with the seat. In a major design oversight, the tether is not long enough to extend outside the well when the seat is stowed. I expect another six inches to be added to its length, perhaps as a consequence of my experience. Nothing was broken, but the fingers involved are still a bit stiff and sore over a week later. With the Toyota, the seats do not flop over and the tether remains on top, and so does not even go into the well.
Cargo space owing to the Sienna’s larger size is similar to that in the Honda and Nissan. Chrysler claims another twenty cubic feet or so, perhaps because no stowable third row takes up space. Basically, there’s a lot, more than you’ll find in even a Chevrolet Suburban among SUVs. With the third row up, the well it occupies when stowed can hold many grocery bags. The numbers suggest that the Toyota offers the most cargo space with all seats in place (twice as much as the Chrysler, which lacks that deep well, and about a third more than the Honda and Nissan). In all but the CE, the front passenger seatback can be folded forward to provide space to carry especially long objects. I expect the last to show up in all minivans before long. It is already available in a number of cars.
Various cargo pockets and compartments of usable size are scattered about the interior. There are four map pockets and two glove compartments. With all but the CE a drawer is located under the front passenger seat. With the XLE the movable center console provides yet more interior storage. All that remains is to add a bunch of overhead paperback-sized compartments as in the Nissan. There are already a pair of sunglass holders in the Toyota.
On the Road
The Toyota continues to trail the competition in engine size, with a 3.3-liter, 230-horsepower V6. The Honda and Nissan have 3.5-liter sixes, while the Chrysler’s less sophisticated overhead value engine is 3.8 liters and the upcoming Ford Freestar will offer a 4.2. On paper this smaller size does not seem a problem. The Toyota engine even produces as much torque as the Honda and Nissan (242 ft-lbs. in all cases), and at a lower RPM (3,600 vs. 4,500 and 4,400). The Chrysler engine’s torque output is similar, but it produces less power near the redline (where minivan owners are unlikely to venture anyway).
It helps that the Sienna is a few hundred pounds lighter than the Honda and Nissan, and about equal in weight to the Chrysler. Another bonus shared with the Honda and top-of-the-line Nissan: the automatic has five gears, permitting the engine to get into its powerband more quickly and stay there.
Given these facts, it came as a surprise to me that the Toyota did not feel as strong as the Honda, or even the Chrysler. Road test results in the magazines suggest that at least at full throttle it is nearly as quick as the class-leading Honda, but in regular driving it doesn’t feel nearly as powerful. I suspect the problem lies with a stiff throttle spring and an automatic that avoids the lower gears. The Toyota can hustle when forced, but it resists doing so. To its credit, its V6 is smoother and makes more refined noises than most and (unlike that in the Nissan) it produces no torque steer (a tug in the wheel when accelerating hard).
The Sienna’s steering is light in effort yet still provides good feedback for a minivan. Although I personally prefer firmer steering, I can see why most minivan buyers would not. The Sienna’s steering quality helps the van feel smaller and lighter than it is, no doubt a priority for most buyers in this segment. Steering in the Nissan, Chrysler, and (especially) GM minivans is higher in effort, but doesn’t provide any more road feel (and might actually provide less). The Mazda MPV’s steering is lighter still, while the Honda’s is about the same, if I recall correctly. One minor issue: as in the Camry and Highlander, bumpy turns produce kickback in the Sienna’s wheel. The design of these systems must be similar. Beyond the steering, the Sienna handles well in the sort of casual driving I’d expect of drivers in this segment. The van didn’t encourage me to drive it more aggressively, and I did not do so.
One pointless weakness: Like the base Camry the Sienna is fitted with tires that squeal with very little provocation. Late in my test drive it drizzled a bit, and on damp pavement I burned rubber pulling away from a light without at all trying to. I doubt I was even halfway into the throttle. I suspect these tires are biased towards fuel economy and/or long life. In the area of traction they leave a great deal to be desired.
As I’d expect in a Toyota, the ride is smooth even without the benefit of the independent rear suspension found in the Honda and Nissan. Unlike the Nissan but like the Chrysler and Honda, the Toyota’s body structure feels solid over bumps. Wind and road noise were a bit higher than I expected from a Toyota. My sense is that the Chrysler and Honda are quieter, though I have driven neither recently.
Overall, the performance champ remains the Honda, mostly due to a more willing powertrain.
Safety
To keep it brief, the Sienna even in CE form offers more safety features than any other minivan. Next best is the Nissan Quest.
Pricing
For quick, up-to-date pricing, and especially user-specified price comparisons, check out the website I created: www.truedelta.com. Why yet another vehicle pricing website? Well, I personally lacked the patience to keep using the others. They were too slow and required too much effort, especially when trying to compare prices. So I taught myself some programming and created a site where there is no need to dig through option packages, prerequisites, and the like one by one -- the TrueDelta algorithm figures these out for you in one swift pass.
One big advantage of the Toyota over the Honda is that in LE and XLE trim it offers far more options. Unlike in the Honda, the navigation system and the entertainment system can be ordered together (with a sunroof as well, even). Unfortunately, these are grouped in a large number of option packages that make the selection process much more difficult than it needs to be.
Fully equipped, a $38,620 Sienna XLE Limited has a number of features the Honda does not even offer. All-wheel-drive adds another $2,200 for those with yet more cash to burn on a minivan. (To make room for the driveshaft, all-wheel-drive Siennas have run-flat tires instead of a spare.) Thus loaded the Sienna has the distinction of being the highest-priced minivan in addition to being the one with the most stuff. In short, if you want all the bells and whistles you’re going to have to pay for them.
Since most people want to spend less, but also want more stuff than is available on the CE, the $24,770 LE and $28,770 XLE will be hardest to get. These are base prices. Eleven packages ranging up to $4,810 are available on the front-drive LE, while nineteen ranging up to $7,040 are available on the front-drive XLE. Far fewer packages are available on the all-wheel-drive models. If you type in the features you want on TrueDelta, it will identify the most cost-effective package.
Last Words
The Sienna impresses with the vast number of features it offers, interior versatility, and refinement. Anything available on another minivan is generally available on the Toyota. Downsides include dull, awkward styling and a powertrain that feels recalcitrant in normal driving.
The Toyota is competitively priced in CE trim, but the more stuff you add the less competitive its price becomes. See my review of the 2005 Town & Country here for an analysis of roughly $30,000 minivans. For this reason, my top choice is now the Chrysler, followed by the Honda. For the most refined $20,000 minivan, buy the Sienna. If you’re attracted by Toyota’s reputation for reliability, need all-wheel-drive, or who want as many features as possible crammed into your van then a loaded Sienna might make sense. However, for most people, the Chrysler or the Honda is a better value once sticker prices approach and pass $30,000.
To learn more about my reliability research and sign up to participate in it, or to perform thorough new car price comparisons, visit www.truedelta.com. A link to this website and alphabetized links to my other vehicle reviews can be found on my profile page.
Recommended:
Yes
Amount Paid (US$): 24,131
Model and Options: CE with cruise, roof rack, floormats
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