How to Choose a New York City Mover: Advice from MovingScam.com
May 14 '05 (Updated May 21 '05)
The Bottom Line Go to the consumer advocacy website www.MovingScam.com for reviews, a blacklist of known scammers, and free advice about moving from unpaid volunteers like me.
Are you looking for a moving company in New York City? If so, you probably went on the Internet and searched on a phrase like “NYC mover” or “New York moving company” to review your options. You might even have entered your contact information on a website where a moving broker promised to put you in touch with several different companies. You could also have looked in the Verizon Yellow Pages and called the company with the biggest ad. As a college professor who is also a long-time volunteer on a consumer advocacy website called www.MovingScam.com, I want to raise some red flags about those methods and suggest better ways to proceed.
We have all become accustomed to shopping for the best price on the Internet. But moving companies of doubtful quality pay big bucks to post eye-catching sponsored links that come up high on Internet searches. “Moving broker” websites like www.123movers.com and www.vanlines.com are notorious for funneling victims to scammers. And it’s almost a rule of thumb: the larger the Yellow Pages ad, the larger the chance that the company is not completely reputable. If you try an Internet search on “New York City mover” right now, you will probably see a moving broker or a company like Ben Hur (rated CCC by the Los Angeles area Better Business Bureau—one of the lower ratings) come up high on your screen. DON’T BE FOOLED!
At the very least, Google the name of your moving company before signing up. You may well find that the company has an extensive “rap sheet” on www.RipoffReport.com or on our own website, MovingScam.com. There are a lot of scammers and dubious companies out there.
A few rules to follow to avoid being victimized
1. Do not automatically go with the company that gives you the lowest quote. There is no free ride in the moving business. If a full-service moving company offers you a price significantly lower than that quoted by other companies, there is a reason for it. Either the workers are being paid very little by the company (in which case they may do a bad job and/or harass you for tips) or the company will raise the price during the move. Or all of the above.
2. Do not go with any company that you've never heard of that contacts you as a result of information that you posted on the Internet. That’s how the scammers get their victims. (Posting your contact information on a website of a major van line like Atlas, Mayflower, or United is OK.)
3. Do not go with any company unless it gives you an in-home estimate for an interstate move. (For a move within the New York metropolitan area, it’s still best to get an in-home estimate but in my opinion it’s not absolutely necessary for a very small move such as a 1BR apartment, as long as you’re dealing with a reputable company like those mentioned at the end of this post.)
4. Do not go with any company that quotes you by cubic feet. The number of cubic feet occupied by household goods is difficult to verify, whereas weight can be determined at official scales in case of a dispute. Note that even estimators from reputable companies initially use cubic feet measurements when doing a household inventory, but they then multiply this by a “pound per cubic foot” factor such as 7 to end up with a weight estimate.
5. Be wary of any company that asks for a deposit —although again, the New York metropolitan area is somewhat of a special case. In New York, many reputable companies do ask for deposits to ensure that customers won’t go with another moving company on the day of the move.
6. Read the article called “How to Find a Reputable Mover” at http://www.movingscam.com/news/findmover.shtml - especially if you are moving from one state to another. The article will tell you how to check out your company on the U.S. Department of Transportation website at www.safersys.org to make sure it has a license to do such moves. The DOT website also has information on how long a company has been in business (we recommend at least 5 and preferably 10 years), whether it has had license revocations, and whether it had safety violations when its drivers and trucks were inspected by the DOT.
7. If www.safersys.org shows that a company has a broker’s license only, BEWARE. Moving brokers put an unnecessary layer between you and the company that actually hauls your shipment. They often book moves without having any particular company in mind, taking their cut as a deposit up front (see above) and assigning you to any random hauler they can find. Then they wash their hands of you because legally, your contract is with the company that hauls the load.
8. Remember that doormen and property brokers have their limits. They can be good sources of recommendations for moves within the New York metropolitan area because they have seen a lot. However, they are less likely to know which companies perform well on longer distance moves. ALWAYS REMEMBER: local and long distance are two different animals in New York City.
These eight tips will help you avoid being scammed, but MovingScam.com also tries to help people find reputable moving companies, and that is what the rest of this post is about.
Some background on MovingScam.com and the moving industry
MovingScam.com was founded in 2001 by a college student named Tim Walker after he was scammed in a hostage freight situation. He was given a lowball quote by a scam company that tripled the price after his goods were on the truck and held them for six weeks before delivering them. When he found out that he had no recourse because there are no meaningful laws in this country to protect consumers moving from one state to another, Tim paid the ransom but founded MovingScam.com to warn others and to work for legislative reform.
Today, consumers still can't win lawsuits against interstate movers for fraud, negligence, or extortion, largely because of opposition from the major van lines like United, Mayflower and Atlas. The van lines say that they oppose scammers, but at the same time their own fear of increased liability from consumer lawsuits has led them to fund lobbyists and Congressmen to kill new legislation that would protect consumers.
So far they have been successful. If you are caught in a hostage freight situation during an interstate move, the police will not help you, and you are very unlikely to prevail in any subsequent legal action because of the way the laws are written. (People moving within states or within the New York metropolitan area surrounding Manhattan have much better protection.)
Although legislative reform has been blocked by the van lines, Tim’s website has had a major impact on the other piece of his mission: warning consumers about scam and dubious companies. From the beginning, MovingScam.com has included a blacklist of known scammers. In addition, the website has a very active message board staffed around the clock by unpaid volunteers like me who answer consumers’ questions about various moving companies. The website now gets almost 1.5 million hits a month and has been written up in the media many times.
Most of the volunteers were scammed by unscrupulous companies. I escaped only because the company I was dealing with referred me to MovingScam so that I could see that it wasn’t on the blacklist. It wasn’t, but the information on the website alerted me to the scam in time for me to break off negotiations. (I ultimately moved with ABF U-Pack and posted a review of it on Epinions at http://www.epinions.com/content_104644710020.) You, too, can go to the MovingScam message board to check out the companies you are considering with our volunteers to make sure that they are not either known scammers or of doubtful quality.
Finding a GOOD moving company
Recently, MovingScam.com has been going beyond warning people about scammers to pointing them in the direction of good legitimate companies. The website does not actually endorse any full-service moving company because of the lack of adequate consumer protections referred to above. Technically, because of the way the laws are written, any interstate moving company can scam anybody without fear of consequences. The MovingScam volunteers do not want to feel responsible if this happens to someone.
However, MovingScam does endorse moving yourself in a rental van, or, if that isn’t an option, using the low-cost U-Pack, We-Drive companies ABF or Broadway Express. One reason that MovingScam is willing to endorse these freight companies is that their pricing is simple and transparent. It’s based solely on distance and the number of linear feet you use in the truck, which can be easily verified with a measuring tape. Also, these companies are not brokers. They own their own trucks and their record of customer service is excellent. A FAQ sheet on these companies can be found at http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1771
The MovingScam messageboard has threads containing reviews of rental van companies and of both ABF and Broadway Express, as well as reviews of auto transport companies. So far, the auto transporters with the best reviews are Dependable Auto Shippers (DAS), Tn’T, and Intercity Lines. (Intercity uses enclosed carriers and is somewhat pricier than DAS and Tn’T.)
Although MovingScam does not endorse any full-service moving company, over the years the website posts have become a searchable database of comments about those companies. Where appropriate, the volunteers now mention those comments to consumers . . . not as a blanket recommendation but as a way to give people some guidance and protection from the sea of sharks surrounding them. The number of reviews of any particular company is usually small, but the volunteers feel that with time, overall quality should become clear.
My personal goal
This post on Epinions represents the first in a series that I intend to write on moving companies located in particular geographical areas. The New York market is huge, both locally and in terms of long-distance moves to Florida, Chicago, and California in particular. It is also riddled with lowballing scammers. That’s why I decided to begin by discussing companies in the New York metropolitan area. I will start by listing a few companies that have performed well for people posting on MovingScam and will update this post as more information becomes available.
I apologize for the length of this post. I know that it's extremely long. Given the complexity of the moving industry in the New York metropolitan area, it needs to be.
A few general comments
Many independent companies like Seamens and Shleppers that do a pretty good job on local moves within the New York metropolitan area should not be used for long-distance moves. The reason is that they aren’t set up to handle such moves. One person who used such a company reported that he had to help the driver unload his own household goods and move them to the second floor when the driver arrived in California and couldn’t find helpers. Other people have experienced significant delivery delays while the New York company tried to build up enough loads to fill the truck. In the worst scenario, companies may farm out your move to “some guy going west with a semi”—you have no idea who.
For long-distance moves, especially beyond Chicago, I feel that you should stick with an agent of a major van line or the freight companies ABF or Broadway Express. An agent of a major van line will be able to draw on van line resources to schedule moves efficiently with long-haul drivers, secure a replacement if the truck breaks down, find unloading labor, and so on. Independent companies are often pushed by their customers to move people farther than they should, and they are likely to run into trouble sooner or later.
How do you find a local agent of a major van line? The major van lines are United, Mayflower, Atlas, Allied, and North American, with Graebel, Stevens, and Wheaton as some smaller majors. Each of these van lines has an Internet site with a “Find an Agent” button. (“Agent” is just another word for “company.”) In terms of both market share and overall quality, most people feel that United and Atlas are the two top van lines in the United States. However, individual agents can vary greatly in quality and some of the smaller van lines like Wheaton are also good. In the New York area, most agents of the major van lines are not located in Manhattan but in New Jersey or the outer boroughs. The reason is the high rents and high insurance costs in Manhattan. Some maintain a Manhattan phone number but are in fact located in Brooklyn or elsewhere.
The moving companies described in detail below represent my best guess as to which companies in the New York metropolitan area are likely to perform well for people. My guess is based on reviews and comments on MovingScam.com over the past two years. However, moving is not an exact science. With the best will in the world, glitches such as damage and delay can occur, especially during the busy summer months when moving company resources are stretched to the limit. These glitches are properly classified not as scams but as “service failures.” There are no guarantees in the moving business. Things can go wrong, and if they do, much depends on the ethics of the owner of the moving company.
That is why I personally have been trying to meet as many owners as possible to see their facilities and to get a sense of who they are. You can tell quite a bit by how people treat their employees and what they choose to have hanging on the walls. It is the reviews, however, that will be the most reliable source of information in the long term. Overall, I think that the MovingScam.com database is likely to be more reliable than the Epinions database because we can identify the bogus reviews better. Also, the people posting on Epinions often don't mention the name of the particular agent they used--just the name of the van line.
The MovingScam reviews below are not “polished” like the ones on Epinions.com. That’s because they were not posted as reviews. They are just comments by consumers who were trying to think through their options in real time. Spelling and punctuation isn’t always correct, but I’ve reproduced them just as they were posted so people can see that they are genuine.
Companies with good comments and reviews on MovingScam.com to date
Based on the reviews, I am going to focus mainly on one company (University Van Lines) for long-distance moves and two companies (All Star Moving & Storage and Moving Man, Inc.) for local and short-distance moves. There are obviously many other good companies in the New York metropolitan area, and this post will be updated as more reviews come in to MovingScam.com.
For long-distance moves (these companies can also do local moves)
The company that has the largest number of positive reviews on MovingScam.com is University Van Lines, an Atlas agent in Rahway, NJ.
University Van Lines has been in operation since 1975. It used to be an agent for American Red Ball, but for the past 15 years it has been an Atlas agent. The online Yellow Pages listing that says that it is an American Red Ball agent is outdated and University has been trying to get it changed for a long time with no luck. It is located at 1098 Randolph Avenue in Rahway, NJ, and its phone number is 732-882-1060. It has no website as yet.
University has 7 trucks of its own. It does a lot of local moves within NJ and NYC, for which it charges at an hourly rate. It runs trucks to Florida about twice a month in the winter (more frequently in the summer) and also goes as far west as Ohio, but not normally beyond that. It goes to the New England states, but not often. For long-distance moves to Chicago and beyond, it books the move with Atlas' long-haul trucks and drivers.
The owners of the company are Jim Quigley and Bill Dolan. Even though they have a relatively small number of trucks, they named their company University Van Lines because they are both college-educated and they thought “van lines” sounded better than “movers.” (Their trucks are painted with “PASS” on the left rear and “FAIL” on the right rear.) Jim's brother Bill Quigley is an estimator for the company. Monica, the person who answers the phone, reportedly does everything around the company except drive the trucks.
University isn't a member of the BBB (many very reputable companies aren’t members, for a variety of reasons). The one complaint that is listed with the BBB for “Atlas Van Lines” under University’s street address is for a long-distance move that was booked by University and went into the Atlas Van Lines system. According to Bill Dolan, the customer who complained was not moved in a University Van Lines truck and he never made a claim with Atlas. University is trying to get that one complaint cleared up. Bill Quigley told me that if someone wants to know about the quality of the company, he should call the NJ Warehousemen & Mover's Association (732-341-3934) or the NJ Department of Law & Public Safety (973-504-6475) rather than the BBB. He said that University's local license number is PC00102.
There are 9 positive reviews and comments about University Van Lines on MovingScam.com. That is more than any other moving company has except for the freight companies ABF and Broadway Express. Note, however, that some people had damage and delay when their shipments were handled by Atlas rather than being self-hauled by University’s own trucks. Reviews posted on MovingScam.com suggest that it's mainly when shipments get into the van line system--ANY van line system--that there can be trouble, because the good local agent can't control what happens from then on.
1. Posted by "atticmouse" on 12/21/03 about a move from NJ to SC (topic heading is "Good Report for a Change!") –
After a few posts & advice from people here...thank you all!...I had a successful, uneventful move from NJ to SC. I used University Van Lines in Rahway, NJ, an agent for Atlas Van Lines. Three men from there picked up the contents of my house in an Atlas truck. In SC, another Atlas truck arrived, actually a couple of days sooner than I expected, with two different men from Spirit Movers, an Atlas agent in Florida. They not only did not ask for payment before unloading, they even continued unloading while I went to the bank due to a problem with the my Visa check card.
It did cost me more than the original estimate, but I ended up sending a bit more weight & they packed a few boxes, & it was a small increase. Looks like using agents for these big companies is a good way to go for interstate moves.
. . . original estimate: $1960, price paid: $$2172. As mentioned, items, boxes, and packing were done which had not been included in original estimate. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=836
2. Posted by "Rob" on 1/23/04 about a move from NJ to Tampa -
I just moved from NJ to Tampa last week and I would very highly recommend University Van Lines in Rahway NJ. I dealt with Mike C. for an in-home estimate. I can only say that with all the scams going on, these guys really are honest and deliver as promised. No mention for $$ was requested and everything was straight forward. Payment was at the final delivery. All I can say is that I would definitely use them again. Great crews for the loading/unloading. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=856
3. Posted by "nyssa" on 7/26/04 about a move from Brooklyn to Madison, WI -
They don't go to the midwest so it would just be an Atlas truck, not their drivers.
Estimated Weight - 4400 lbs (GNTE)
Cost (with $250 deductable insurance) - $3,350 (and possible $418.00 for a shuttle in Madison).
I got a good vibe from the guy who came to see me and he is easy to reach via email which is comforting. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2192
Update on 8/26/04 - I just wanted to give an update on my move from brooklyn to madison...
i went with University Van Lines, a decision which I am extremely happy with. The pickup of our stuff went smoothly, although that had not told us in advance that our stuff was going to sit in there warehouse. We were told that our stuff would not arrive until near the end of the 18 day window that we had been quoted, but it arrived 10 days after pickup. The company that delivered it was the local Atlas agent in Madison, a company I will condsider when I move again! All of the crews that we were worked with were helpful and took good care of our things. I have noticed a new scratch or two on a few of our peices of furniture. Nothing major and I consider us having got off easy. Our estimate was for about 4500 pounds, but our actual weight was about 2600 and the price was adjusted accordingly. In general, I would reccomend University Van Lines to anyone who is moving from the NYC metro area. I felt like we were treated well and our move went smoothly.
I never would have been able to pull this move off without the help of people from this site! Each step of the way, I always had a cadre of experts to help me make decisions and I beleive that is why I'm sitting in my new apartment surrounded by all of my belongings! -
http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2481
4. Posted by "Patricia in Portland" on 8/12/04 about a move from Brooklyn to Portland, OR –
I used University Van Lines in Rahway, NJ (Atlas). The move could not have been smoother. I had a GNTE for $3400 but ended up paying just over $3000 total. Bill and Jimmy Quigley, who run the place, were just fantastic--they answered all my questions and followed through. I was present when they packed the shuttle truck in Brooklyn, and they were extremely careful and thorough. My dad met the driver on the other side in Portland and said the same.
These are great movers and worth every penny (although they were also the least expensive estimate!) - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1672
5. Posted by "austinbound" on 12/13/04 about a move from NYC to Austin, TX -
Hi All,
It's been a while since my initial posts but I wanted to check back in with a review of my experience with Atlas in general and University Van Lines in specific. My move was from NYC to Austin.
Everyone I dealt with at University was professional. The team showed up promptly and seemed to handle everything with due care. There were a couple of bleeps: 1) They left my truck downstairs open and unattended. So I ended up spending some time on the truck trying to make sure no one would come by and help themselves to my TV. Perhaps these guys weren't used to the craziness of the city. They also forgot; 2) They forgot to number and log a box that they had packed for me. It had my speakers and some artwork. Luckily, I noticed that in the inventory and they added it in.
As for Atlas, they did damage a couple items in transit. I put in a complaint and they are having a local workshop come in and look at the items I listed in hopes of resolving my claim. I'll let you know how it goes. Also, they arrived within the promised time but called on Saturday to tell us they'd be there in the afternoon ... and then didn't show up till Sunday night. All part of the moving business, I suppose.
All in all, I recommend University Van Lines. Their price was fair and they even credited me the difference between what they estimated and the actual weight. They were professional to deal with and didn't try to sugar-coat things (like tell me that Ikea furniture is covered by insurance when in most cases it's not). They also said that the tip was up to me, and acted appreciative when it was received instead of demanding (as has been my experience in the past).
Will let you know how my damage claim is resolved by Atlas in the weeks to come.
http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3093
6. Posted by "Kumar" on 12/22/04 about a move from NJ to FL -
I moved from Bridgewater, NJ to Bradenton FL on 10th Dec. A friend recommended me to read this website before finalising my moving company. I am glad I did that. After evaluating all options including U pack, Broadway Express, I finally decided to go with University Van lines. They provided me estimate of 2700 pounds and charges of $1800. Broadway express quoted $1564 ( minimum) for 10 linear feet. Probably I would have been able to fit more stuff if I had used broadway but I did not have it.
Bill who provided me the estimates informed me that they will pickup stuff on friday 10th Dec morning however they came in the afternoon as driver Teri informed me that He had to pickup small shipment in Long Island. originally they had told me that it will take betwenn 3 and 10 days for goods to reach Florida. driver Teri told me that He will be at my aprtment in Forida on Tuesday 14th Dec. Total weight came to 2810 pounds and I also opted for additional insurance with 500 deductible and paid total of $1910 including insurance of $105. They loaded everything in two hours.
Teri called me on Sunday to tell me that He will reach on Monday itself and deliver on Monday 13th Dec noon time. He was very helpful. It was a very positive experiance and I would definitelly recommend University Van lines (Agent of Atlas van lines) I do not think my move could have been better. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3063
7. Posted by "alex nj" on 1/20/05 about a move from NJ to Hollywood, FL -
Hi all just wanted to say thank you again.
The move went great no problems at all the people at University Van Lines where amazing.
Sorry that I did not write sooner but just have been so busy with the move and new job and all the other stuff.
Update on 1/22/05 – It was a University truck and driver. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3063
8. Posted by "bpgoz" on 3/11/05 for a move from Brooklyn to SF –
Just wanted to provide some feedback on my recent cross country move from Brooklyn, NY to SF, CA. I went with University Van Lines in NJ and these guys did a great job. They were on time, extremely professional, courteous and seemed genuinely concerned about getting it right. The same could be said for the guys at the CA end. It was the easiest and most seamless move I've ever had and these guys get a huge kudos from my end.
Bill at University did give me a GNTE estimate that ended up being a lot lower than his quote. In all honesty, I figured it probably would be but I wanted the assurance of knowing it was never going to go above what was ultimately quoted.
I had a full service move where they did the packing, and so far I have unpacked about 70% of the boxes and NOTHING is broken. I'm impressed.
. . . I don't have the final weight in front of me, but it was approx. 5K lbs. We did have a shuttle in NY but we didn't have one in SF. The final price was $5989, which included packing.
The price was very competitive with the other estimates I received -
http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3637
9. Posted by "kyuss1" on 1/25/05 for a move from NJ to Los Angeles (this has to do mainly with University’s estimator Bill Quigley) -
I researched companies very thoroghly in north jersey using this site and various other scam sites, njmovers.com, the BBB site and safersys.org's site. The cream of the crop came up to be University Van Lines, Wade Odell and Wade and Holman Moving Systems. all 3 came out for an estimate and they were all quite courteous and professional.
. . . Bill was awesome and the best IMHO of the 3 sales reps though the other 2 were very good. He was right on time, courteous, professional, seemingly very honest and open, and very personable & likeable. He gave me great tips on packing, encouraged me to pack all myself, showed me how, did a very thorough inventory and was the most detail oriented. He asked a lot of questions which other didn't. He also was the only agent to offer to come back out a few days before the move to do yet another inventory and write up a GNTE estimate. He was the most outstanding sales rep I've ever dealt with in all the moves I've made. I'm extremely comfortable with him and University atm.
My only concerns with University are these:
*Not members of the BBB
*Epinions.com averages 2 stars on Atlas Van Lines while United averages 3 stars - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3314
Unfortunately, “kyuss1” DID have a problem with his move, which went into the Atlas Van Lines system. He posted on 4/23/05 that some components were removed from his boxed computer and that some other things had damage. He stressed that Bill Quigley (and his brother Jim, a co-owner of University Van Lines) were good guys but strongly advised people to move themselves with ABF or Broadway Express rather than using a van line - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4075
Again, as with the BBB complaint, this was a problem that occurred on Atlas’ watch. It did not occur on the watch of University Van Lines, which only booked the move. Nevertheless, Bill and Jim Quigley did intervene to try to help “kyuss1.” At last report, Bill told me that he had advised “kyuss1” to ask for arbitration on his $800 claim.
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Other companies in northern and central New Jersey with positive reviews and comments on MovingScam.com that could be used for long-distance as well as local moves include Wade Odell Wade (United) in Midland Park, Holman Moving Systems (United) in Hackensack, All Brunswick (Wheaton) in Dayton, which has one good review for a cross-country move, Applegate (United) in Manasquan, also with one good review of a move from NJ to TX, and American Movers (Global/North American) in Long Branch. Moving professionals have posted that pricing is lower in central New Jersey than in the north because of the lower cost of doing business there.
In Brooklyn, a company with positive comments on MovingScam.com is Dahill (Mayflower), but it does primarily commercial moves. In Westchester County, we have positive comments on Collins Brothers (Atlas) in Larchmont and Gold Service Movers (Wheaton) in White Plains. Companies on Long Island with positive comments include Nassau Worldwide Movers (United) in West Babylon, which has two good reviews on the website, Molloy Brothers (Mayflower) in Old Bethpage, Hall-Lane (United) in Commack, Avatar Moving Systems (Atlas) in Bohemia, and Certified Transportation Group (Atlas) in Islandia.
We don’t yet have enough reviews of the above companies for me to feel completely confident about them, but the comments on them look good so far. Notice that virtually all of them are United or Atlas agents, further evidence that those two van lines perform especially well.
Remember, too, that the low-cost U-Pack, We-Drive companies ABF U-Pack and Broadway Express can move you from (and to) the New York metropolitan area. ABF has a “live load” option where the driver waits with the truck for up to two hours while you load. With Broadway Express, the driver always waits with the truck. That is good because the truck can often be double-parked and moved if necessary. In addition, Broadway Express has been moving trade and stage show equipment into and out of Manhattan for many years, so the cops know them and are likely to be lenient about parking violations. Judging from the reviews on MovingScam.com, in New York City you are much less likely to need a shuttle with Broadway Express than with an agent of a major van line.
For local moves or relatively short-distance moves (i.e. not cross-country)
All Star Moving & Storage, an independent company in Brooklyn, NY.
I have visited All Star’s facility and have met the owner (Rich Barrale, pronounced like bar plus alley) and his estimator Nick and assistant Chris. Rich is a delightful guy with a great love of life. Here are some of his sayings that I wrote down the first time I talked with him on the phone:
"I don't get paid enough to lie."
"I earn my money the old-fashioned way . . . by working for it."
"If the owner of a company is creepy, that attitude trickles down to the workers."
I respect what he says because it is borne out by the official record. All Star has been in business for 14 years doing well over a thousand moves a year and in all that time it has no complaints with the BBB. It doesn’t advertise but is one of three moving companies recommended by the Manhattan User's Guide. When I visited, I could see that Rich is a person of integrity who treats his workers as well as he treats his customers. It was obvious that they respect him enormously.
I will just add the strong warning that there is another "All Star" that is associated with US Movers (based in Brooklyn) that is a horrible company. There is also one in the San Fernando Valley in CA that is a scammer, and there is another one based in Fairlawn, NJ that looks extremely dubious. Please, if you want to get a quote from All Star, make sure that you call the right one. They have a Manhattan phone number, which is 212-254-2638, and a Brooklyn phone number, which is 718-643-4705.
All Star’s office and warehouse is located on Sandford Street in Brooklyn. Its DOT license number is 515137 and its MC license number is 261594. It has 9 straight trucks and its website is at www.allstarnewyork.com
There are 9 good reviews and comments about All Star on MovingScam.com., as follows.
1. Posted by "lawra" on 7/8/04 about a move from Manhattan to Brooklyn –
They showed up on time, were very nice & professional - introduced themselves (4 guys) and got right to work. They loaded everything fairly quickly, wrapped up all the furniture etc and put any small stuff i forgot into wardrobe boxes. I got 6 free wardrobe boxes (rental).
They showed up at my new apartment and started unloading that afternoon and finished in a couple hours.
Nothing looks damaged - maybe a ding or something on an old bookshelf but its IKEA and over 8 years old so who cares. We had 5 large computer monitors, 3 TVs, etc. and all that was wrapped well and looks fine.
At the end they stuck to the binding not to exceed estimate contract.
It was a steamy hot day and they were working hard, plus they rearranged the bedroom furniture a couple times for me (I suck at measuring) - so they got a nice tip.
I totally recc'd them - I know the board can't officially do that, but my move went smoothly with none of the horror stories I've read here. Again, this was a local move so it was hourly rate, done in one day and paid with personal check at the end.
. . . They're liscenced to go Interstate but I don't know how often they do it or how far they go (I'm sure Tri state area at least, but not sure about cross country). They're fairly small (9 trucks) and don't advertise at all.
. . . I moved a two bedroom apartment - full bedroom, dining table, large desk w/ return, 4 bookshelves plus tons of dissassembled metro shelving. Lots of computer gear including 5 large monitors. Maybe 20 boxes each of CDs and books. No couch or armchairs. Just tons of STUFF.
I was quoted $150/hour for 4 men and I believe 8 hours. Plus crates for all the flat stuff. The supplies came to about $125 (I don't have the estimate or bill with me). I was charged the binding not to exceed estimate plus 10% over. So it came to around $1500. Took all day from 9:30am until about 6:30pm (my co op was ok with going past 5, some aren't). There were elevators on both ends (very old small one to a slightly larger newer one), with a few stairs on both sides. (no extra charges).
No shuttle charges or anything like that - nothing extra was tagged on at all - even though they packed a few bits and bobs for me etc. They braved 90 degree heat and a brief but raging downpour. Nice all the time, put my bed back together, reattached the mirror to the vanity, bolted the desk and return back together etc. Everything was well padded and they newly refinished floor protected.
. . . I didn't give any deposit, and they let me pay by personal check at the end, with a full receipt etc. after everything was loaded out and put into my apartment. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2038
2. Posted by "andy1" on 7/8/04 about a move from Brooklyn to VA –
I just received a GNTE quote from All Star, it sounds good. They also said payment would come after everything is unloaded at the destination.
Move is from Brooklyn, NY to Fairfax, VA on July 31, small 1 BR apt. It's about a 4:30-5:00 drive, he booked it at 5:30 each way, pretty reasonable I thought. He's also not charging for the time in getting to me in Brooklyn. Three men loading, 2 men unloading, total $1410 plus tolls (which will be about $60). I will have the truck to myself, and it will be done by All Star, not a broker (he says he has 9 trucks).
[Additional post on 8/2/04] - Update on All Star . . . The move went very smoothly, the movers were friendly and capable. The only mishap was some damage to a dresser, luckily it was an Ikea so not that big a deal. As I suspected, the drive took longer than it was billed for, but the loading and unloading did not take as long as expected (I also helped out voluntarily). The total, including the drive back, certainly went at least slightly over the allotted time (I wasn't expecting it to go under), and I paid my guaranteed price with no problems. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2038
3. Posted by "mercerdnky" on 8/26/04 about a move from CT to NYC –
I just moved from CT (Hartford area) to NYC. After reading the reviews here about All Star Moving & Storage in Brooklyn, I contacted them and decided to use them. They were a bit more expensive than the other moving companies I got quotes from but I was impressed with their knowledge and honesty on the phone and I felt that paying a little more per hour would save me in the long run (quality of service and peace of mind).
All Star did not offer an in house estimate and did not ask for an itemized list of what I had to move. They assumed it was a typical 1 bedroom apartment move and estimated the hours. They charged an hourly rate for an interstate move but they gave me a very low travel time, not to exceed - so I felt very comfortable using the hourly rate.
We had one problem with the insurance certificate - but I am not sure who to blame there (All Star or the management company). During process, All Star was always available and worked hard to fix the situation.
Nothing was broken or damaged. The movers were courteous. No hidden costs (tape, etc.) Best of all, the move was under, by a couple hundred dollars, what they estimated.
I am very pleased with my decision to go with All Star Moving!
[Additional post on 9/7/04] - I was the only one on the truck.
The cost was $120 per hour for 3 men. Due to the time constraint (getting in the NYC apt by 4 pm), they thought 3 men would be the best. All Star worked with me as I was very concerned that the majority of the cost of the move was travel time. They agreed to a 'not to exceed' travel time which was extremely fair.
. . . No deposit required for All Star, which was great! They just faxed me a work order and called the day before to confirm. I also paid the bill with a personal check.
The truck was at least 3X the size I needed but I can't estimate the length. - - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2038
4. Posted by "Christine" on 8/2/04 about a move from NYC to Raleigh, NC (this is not a review of her move but it gives a sense of the character of the owner) –
I just spoke with All Star Moving & Storage in Brooklyn. I am unhappy to report that the gentleman I spoke with [Rich Barrale] advised that using their service would be cost prohibitive since my move is so small and they provide dedicated trucks. I am happy to report that I felt he was extremely honest and straightforward. He didn't attempt to convince me to use his service despite the cost. He didn't suggest setting up an estimate to lure me into using the company. And he did provide advice, which I have read before in articles and on this site, regarding how to find a reputable mover and how to ensure that the price of the move did not explode upon delivery.
While he estimated that All Star M & S would cost me approximately $2,300, he estimated that I could anticipate other reputable moving companies, that do not provide dedicated trucks, would cost me approximately $1,500, which is what I anticipate spending if I use a full service mover. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2217
5. Posted by "vern" on 9/ 30/04 about a move from Manhattan to Syracuse, NY –
All Star did an excellent job. They were professional, very hard working, courteous. The move was completed two days ago, and as of yet we haven't found anything that was damaged, broken or lost. It took them longer than it should have to get from Manhattan to Syracuse - they took a poor route - which meant that they didn't arrive until 9 p.m., and the unload wasn't complete until almost midnight, much to the consternation of some neighbors. Overall though, we are very pleased with All Star, and I would recommend them. Also, Nick [an estimator for All Star], who we worked with in the office, was very helpful and professional.
. . . On the estimate they wrote in the word "guaranteed" next to estimate, also writing in that the total cost would not exceed the estimate by more than 10%. One of the unknows in the estimate was the cost of tolls, which I was responsible for. My cost actually came in lower than the estimate [which “vern” posted was $1900], as the estimate called for 4 workers at the pickup, and only 3 workers actually arrived. Part of that savings was eaten up by $52 in tolls, but they did provide receipts for the tolls. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2563
6. Posted by "doebtown" on 5/7/05 about a move from Brooklyn to NJ that took place in October 2004 -
Rich came over to my 1BR apartment (really, they were the only ones who were willing to make an in apartment estimate for a such a small apartment) gave me a written, true, not to exceed estimate and everything seemed VERY reasonable.
[Update] . . . let me just tell anyone who's interested that All Star was excellent. The guys who came out were strong, hard working, and neat. NOTHING was broken or lost. You'll recall that I had a true binding not-to-exceed estimate. And when the guys on the truck did the math, the total cost came out above my estimate. I showed them the estimate and without another THOUGHT, they scratched out the total they had come up with and charged me the estimate price. Really, they were great and anyone's who's considering using them should hear how much I appreciated their good work. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2692
7. Posted by "Libbette" on 5/17/05 about a move from NJ to the NYC Financial District -
We just moved with All Star on Sunday, and we couldn't have been happier with them. They came from Brooklyn to Chatham, NJ -- said they'd be there at 9 and got there at maybe 9:10am, which is on time as far as I'm concerned. Very friendly and accomodating. There were quite a few things we hadn't packed yet or packed well (ie laundry baskets with stuff spilling out of them) and we were told "don't worry, just sit back and relax". This was a huge relief, as I had been worried they would make a fuss about this.
We had three guys at $120 an hour, and they left their depot at 8 and left downtown NYC (where we moved to) sometime after 6. We had a 2 bed apartment, with large 2-piece sectional lounge, about 8 bookshelves, coffee table, 3 desks, bed, TV rack, bedroom dresser, carpets, as well as boxes and boxes of books and kitchen stuff.
I would recommend these guys to anyone! - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2038
Besides these 7 positive reports, I know of two other people who used All Star and were pleased but didn’t post publicly—"smiliegirl" and "jrebeiro"—so we now have 9 unsolicited positive reviews of the company on MovingScam.com. I believe that "park" also used them for a local move including storage.
Moving Man, Inc., a Wheaton agent in Manhattan.
Moving Man books long-distance moves, but anything over 500 miles is handled by Wheaton. Someone posted on MovingScam.com that Wheaton is the only major van line that has no debt, and someone else said that Wheaton focuses on COD moves (household moves paid for by customers) rather than on corporate moves paid for by employers, which, if true, would be good news for consumers.
I have visited Moving Man’s two facilities in Manhattan and have met the owner (Jon Stout) and his two estimators Vladimir and Kal. The facilities are impressive, with fireproof storage and 24-hour security cameras. The office functions are highly computerized. Jon himself is focused, energetic, personable, and very intelligent. He has developed excellent written materials to give to customers that go far beyond the basic Wheaton Van Lines package.
Moving Man’s office is located on W. 150th Street in Manhattan and its phone number is 212-281-4300. Its DOT license number is 261050 and its MC license number is 174323. It has 8 straight trucks and 1 tractor-trailer. Its website is at www.movingmaninc.com
There are 4 good comments about Moving Man on MovingScam.com, as follows:
1. Posted by "carefulamy" on 6/8/04 about moves within NYC –
My friends swear by Moving Man, but they only do local moves so we never called them [about a move to San Francisco]. They had to move my friend Johanna's couch by taking out to the back yard and over the back fence (in Brooklyn), and they did it in about two seconds with no complaining. They handled the packing and the moving for another friend, who raves about them. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1671
2. Below is a review of Moving Man that was sent to me on 7/6/04 by a person I had been advising by private message. He chose Moving Man for a move from Long Island to DC (found them in the Verizon Yellow Pages) and was pleased, and he gave me permission to post his comments on the open messageboard.
Hi Diane,
I'm not sure if you remember me... I wrote you a couple of weeks ago about my move (1 br of furniture boxes) from Long Island NY to Washington DC and I just wanted to update you on the move...
I decided to go with Moving Man. They quoted me $992 for 1200lbs. I wasn't at home on the day of my move but according to my parents on July 3, they (2 men) were very professional and packed everything and completed a detailed inventory within 1/2 hour. Although they told me they expected to deliver the shipment early afternoon July 5, they delivered at 7:30pm but it was probably due to traffic on the holiday and other business. As soon as they got to the apartment they unloaded everything fairly quickly (under an hour) to my apartment on the 4th floor. They even set up a mattress set (frame, box spring, and mattress).
I would definitley recommend this service to others in the LI, NYC metro area. Throughout the process the office and the dispatch were both very professional. I believe their minimum weight is 1000lbs. I had to pay a security deposit of $200 and the balance due was $690.
Pls feel free to post any of this information on the website that you may find helpful for other customers. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1766
3. Posted by "stp" on 8/1/04 for a move from NYC to Worcester, MA –
Overall, we are very happy with our move. As I have posted before, we ended up going with Moving Man, agent of Wheaton. . . . there were absolutely no surprises.
They showed up when they said they would on all three days - packing on day one, loading on day two, delivering on day three. The packing was reasonably well done. We paid with a credit card after everything was unloaded from the truck. Enormous thanks to the people who maintain this site. -http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1747
4. Posted by "Christine" on 8/8/04 (this is not a review of her move but it gives an idea of the character of the estimator) –
Moving Man provided a quote on Tuesday, but it was too high for my budget. The gentleman who did the estimate was very honest and provided me with my moving rights and responsibilities right away.
The non-binding estimated cost came to $2,033.89, for approximately 3,200 lbs. Because the move is just under 500 miles [Manhattan to Raleigh, NC], Moving Man would perform the move instead of Wheaton.
Based on the board's feedback, I would have considered using Moving Man, but the price is prohibitive for me. [She ended up using ABF.] - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2217
Three people posting on MovingScam have had reservations about Moving Man. One said that the estimator pressured her to sign on the spot. Another said that Moving Man’s quote was too high ($3000 for a New York City to Syracuse move vs. All Star’s quote of $1900). A third felt that one of Moving Man’s estimators (Vladimir) was evasive. Since then I have met Vladimir and have spoken with him at length. Being Russian-born, he may occasionally have a bit of trouble communicating, but I believe that the person who posted that he was evasive misinterpreted his low-key manner. He is an intelligent and charming person, and in my opinion honest as well.
Moving Man has had no complaints with the BBB over the past 36 months. It has been in business since 1979. Although we have a relatively small number of reviews to date, and people have had a few quibbles about the way the estimates were handled, I think this company is worth careful consideration, especially when people need secure storage and a high degree of professionalism.
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In Manhattan, two other companies that have good comments on MovingScam.com for local moves are Big John’s and Brownstone Brothers. Both are independent moving companies. Brownstone does local moves only. Like All Star, it is recommended by the Manhattan User’s Guide, but we have no actual reviews of it as yet. Big John’s is located on the Upper East Side and caters to a fairly well-to-do clientele. We have one review by a person who used it for a cross-country move. He reported that the price was quite high compared to his other quotes, and there were also problems getting unloading labor, so I think Big John’s is better used for local or relatively short-distance moves than for cross-country moves.
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diane2134
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