Just wondering what is going on with these categories. Seems to me that the site isn't taking these categories very seriously because they combined the two rather than enlarge them individually, and now the popular hits, top earning reviews, and most popular reviews in sports and outdoors do not even show up on our home page or even in our member center.

This issue has been discussed a bit over on this thread, but the basic answer is that the fix is coming...

At first when the categories were merged basically all Advisor and TR bubbles disappeared from reviews and from ratings (Advisors didn't have a Most Helpful button either).

When Epinions pushed the bug fix for this, the Sports & Outdoors category disappeared from the rankings (as did a few other categories including Health & Wellness). What that means is basically your Sports & Outdoors reviews don't count in the MPA/MPR rankings and have disappeared from the rankings.

Garrett (Epinions) has said that they know about this and are working on fixing the problem for the Sports & Outdoors and the Health & Wellness categories, though I don't think they've really given a time frame for the bug to get fixed.

When the problem is finally fixed I think we should be pretty well off. The database update added thousands of products to both categories (or now the new, single category) and the new SAP request for products not listed is up and running and Openroad (Abraham) can use it to add more products.

Jeff

Thanks for the great update, Jeff. I think I can expand upon the answer slightly. My understanding is that all of the categories will eventually be updated to reflect the shopping.com database. Sports and Outdoors was just among the first to go through this transition and is feeling the growing pains as a result.

It isn't that Epinions doesn't care about the category, it's just the result of some growing pains that have in many ways already improved it. The database has grown quite a bit already. Once the final bugs are worked out, we will be ahead of the other categories and in essence the rulers of the epinions world sitting at our computers laughing evily, "muhahaha!"

That's my two cents anyway,
Scott

I see that the message boards can be incredibly helpful for finding out information about the site as well as certain categories, thanks again guys.

No problem - just ask away in the future - we're here to help.

Jeff

I was looking over my history yesterday and despite some speculation that hits are down, noticed that they were up quite a bit in both December and January. Despite the issues, things seem to be looking up in sporting goods and outdoors.
Scott

berniez40 has asked about the status of the Sports and Outdoors Category on the main Epinions Message Board.

Is There ....

At the moment the category is still not registering for MPA/MPR, though hits are being counted and IS is still being earned on reviews. Those stats just aren't helping you on the most popular author and review lists.

Jeff

I have some SPorts/Outdoors reviews with zero outside hits in the last couple of months. These reviews must be ''hidden'' in the database. It was fun while it lasted! -Dave

Yep,
I've noticed that my newer reviews have had zero outside hits. I don't plan on posting anything new until they get it fixed.
Scott

Here is what Almar (from Epinions) said about the current situation...

I'll be as candid as I can in answering these questions with the knowledge I have now:

1) Is this is going to be a permanent problem (aka, are the currently dead categories dead forever);

I'm told no. In fact, when the catalog fixes go out, this should fix a lot of the problems. For the "dead forever" ones, I believe we're looking into ways to at least salvage the review and give you the ability to move it (better than the way it works now) if the product no longer exists.

2) If it's not a permanent problem, when will it be fixed?; and

The engineers are working on this right now (and trying to solve the issue of the greyed out reviews) and a bunch of other stuff including missing hits.

3) If it can be fixed, will the hits that are currently occuring but not registering going to be credited back? Will there be any IS credit and will the future, properly credited hits earn IS?

I hate to say it, but I don't think we'll be able credit back the missing hits (hopefully I'm wrong but I doubt it on this one). But if we're able to fix the missing hits, then yes, I think it's safe to assume you'll be properly credited for hits moving forward from the period it's fixed.


Please keep in mind that the answers might change depending on what they discover to be the root of the issues. As with the greyed out reviews, it turns out there was more than one cause to that but what you saw as a result was the same. Hopefully that isn't the case for everything mentioned but unfortunately it's not that straightforward (from what I'm told).

-Almar


That was said in this thread

I really hope that fixing the bugs in Sports and Outdoors is a priority. It seems like there is a huge focus on attracting new writers. But if these issues aren't resolved it's a waste of money. Why bother paying $10 for 10 mediocre reviews that no one will ever see?

I know that $10 for 10 reviews hasn't motivated me to write anything. I'm not going to work for 50 cents an hour to write a review that no one ever sees. It's frustrating to the point that I've considered pulling all my hockey reviews to post on a site that I control.

Scott

There's been some more discussion of the issues over on the Outdoor Gear Boards...since I think most of us noticed that without any recorded hits on our Sports and Outdoors reviews, there's been no IS for May.

What's Epinions doing with the Sports & Outdoors Category?

Holding Back?

Jeff

There was a rumor that a fix will be pushed out at the end of June that will allow the reviews to start counting hits again and hopefully earn some IS. I'll believe it when I see it. That info came from this thread.

Jeff,
Thanks for pointing me to that thread. I felt a little bad about the negativity of my previous post. It's all so frustrating though. You made an excellent point in the other thread though, it's not being negative for the sake of being negative. There is a real problem that has existed far too long and going merrily along as if there isn't one doesn't do anyone a bit of good.

I'm too busy with other things right now to do anything about moving my reviews. But in a couple months if things aren't fixed, I'm pretty sure that's the route I'm going to go. Leaving them where no one can see them is a waste.

Scott

Hey Dave, Scott, Jeff, and Smallmouth,

I know most of you guys going way back to when I was still an Advisor in Sports and I know we had talked much more often then through comments.

I've been over in the message boards and have been involved in asking questions, giving concerns and talking options while there is so much indecision and lack of reaL PROGRESS in reference to categories having problems.

I'm not following any person's lead there and profess all I say comes from my heart. None is or was to be considered condescending or bitter toward rightful questions being brought up. I simply posted what I believe the options were to doing nothing. I also realise that those options don't "fit" everyone. They were said in general.

When it comes down to the bottom line things stink in this category and Beauty. They have been hit harder than any other categories the way I see it. I've voiced that many times over the last few months.

Though I don't have as much invested in this category as you guys I still have 18 or so reviews posted since December that of course aren't doing a thing. That's a lot of time I have invested in Sports too. I have been fortunate in regard to not losing total IS or total views because I am also quite diversified.

I just wanted to let you know first hand I care about you guys and everyone on the site. I think the situation stinks for you and unfortunately I don't have much else to say, or really can say. As I stated in another thread on the message boards, We are all big boys and can only make our own decisions.

I'll also add that I hope this mess gets cleared up sooner rather than later.

Best regards,

Phil

At least for the overall MPA list (sitewide), it seems that the invisible reviews for Outdoor Gear & Sporting Goods reviews have been re-incorporated into hit totals (though the reviews themselves aren't counting new hits - it's just counting what you had already gotten pre-/review/ bug). However there's still no tracking for the reviews themselves and if you try to get hit counts for the individual category, it's not there.

I guess it's some sort of improvement.

Jeff

Almar posted over in the Outdoor Gear board that they are looking to roll out a fix for the MPA/MPR stats for the broken categories including sports and outdoors starting tomorrow.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that it starts working.

Here's the original post.

Jeff

Well, that's something. It would be a lot nicer if they figured out how to make our reviews visible again though.
Scott

There's a person on the main board reporting that their reviews that were invisible are showing up now. Not sure if it's part of the roll-out that Almar was talking about. Hopefully it is.

Original Post

Jeff

It looks like the MPA/MPR is somewhat back up and running. I don't know about others, but at least for me, it seems to be pretty significantly messed up though.

I'm ranked down at like 138 in the Sports & Outdoors Category and it's showing that I have just over 5900 total hits. I've got Outdoor Gear reviews that have more total hits than that by themselves so the stat tracking stuff isn't picking up all the reviews and all the total hits I guess. Anyone else noticing issues? I sent in a bug report, not sure if it'll do anything.

I posted this over on the main board and over on the Outdoor Gear Board.

Jeff

Jeff,
It's definitely right since I'm on top of the board . . . woohoo, first place.

Seriously, it's not right. It shows about 1/5 of what I would guess my total sports and outdoor hits are and I know full well that there are several people who should be leading me in hits. I'm guessing that it's counting hits for the first year that I wrote here only.

Scott

I checked through a number of my reviews in Sports/Outdoors and none have recorded new hits (none since April). Anyone else see the same?

I did a Google search on some and they did appear in the Google search engine, so I think the hit counter just isn't recording anything yet. No hits = no IS (but you already knew that). -Dave

I found two reviews with one hit each in June. Both were pretty new and I would have expected decent numbers on one of them. I didn't see any hits for May in any reviews and April numbers were a dismal drop off from March and February. It's pretty obvious though that some issue began in February from looking at the trends.

Scott

Strange that a tent review I posted last summer has the /review/ in it but has gatjher some hits, few but has gained $12. IS

pops

I looked through some of my Sports/Outdoors reviews too, and no new outside hits have been recorded yet. Another month down the drain? -Dave

What a waste

Someone who attended the Chicago Meet N Greet (sleeper54) said the follow was mentioned:

The plan to supplant the Epinions catalog with the Shopping dot com database/catalog, with a target completion date of Q1, 2009. Until then, the /review, search engine, etc. problems will all remain with the site through that transition period.

I haven't heard any official word, but if this is true the problem could be on-going for quite a while. -Dave

Someone on the General Boards took notice of the Top Earning Reviews in Sports & Outdoor Gear here:

Relevant Discussion

There seems to be little sympathy for the situation; i.e., some people seem to be making out (or, as one put it, 'hitting the jackpot') while others are, for all intents and purposes, having money taken right out of their pockets. While no one would, or should, blame those who are raking it in (it's just the luck of the draw insofar as the computers are actually working at the moment), I think those who are actually makin' it should probably realize that their current view of the 'world' ain't reality for most of us.

What really disturbs me at this point is that these cosmetic fixes (MPA/MPR/TER) are, in many ways, rubbing the noses of those most affected in it. It is painfully obvious that the hits are there and being generated by our reviews; IS amounts to those on the lists (note the dates of the reviews and the hit totals, then compare them to the hit totals we were getting on reviews that went 'dead'), Google placement of reviews without having to type 'epinions' in the search string, promises of going back and crediting prior hits during this period, et al. are evidence that the hits are there but just not being credited (not to mention fairly rewarded) to most, or many, of the authors in the category.

Now we're hearing rumors that the timetable for correcting the problem(s) is not just 'slipping,' but is likely to be pushed back to next year?! How long before this has a serious and negative impact on those 'vested' in the category vs. those who write here for a quick score and/or to flesh out their 10-block with the current 10-4-10? Do we just say "that sucks" and figure on putting our efforts into some other area that is 'working?' What does that portend for the category?

I've put up a thread on the main board in an attempt to get some information on the status of the fixes for the hit counts on reviews with /review/ in the URL since the rumor is that they are being pushed off until next year.

/review/ Reviews hit count status?

Well, it looks like I will be setting up a new website in the next few weeks and start migrating my hockey reviews there. It's a complete waste of time and effort to keep them here. Maybe if they get things fixed I will repost them here.
Scott

Don't blame ya a bit.

This is contained in the link referred to earlier.

/review/ Reviews hit count status?[/quote]


Posted: Jun 26 '08, 5:13 pm

Post: 191244
RE: An update

All,
When we were asked this question at the meet and greet I told the group that we still targeting to fix this in June. So here is the update. We believe we have a fix for the income share and hits problems that were caused by the catalog migration in November. We're currently testing it and expect to have the fix out with the June Income share. We do not expect that Income Share will be out next week but rather the following week. After the fix is released you should see the hits on the reviews with /review/ format.

Re: /review/ format
This new url format is going to be more and more common as we migrate more categories to the shopping.com catalog. We do not expect to have these problems going forward with other categories.

Thanks,
Yoel


Sounds like good news to me!!

pops

Yes, that's good news. That's different from what they were told at the M n' G in Chicago, but perhaps the fix was not finalized at that time. I'll just take a wait and see approach for now.... -Dave

Has anyone noticed any action on current Sports and Outdoor reviews. I posted two in June. Both had the /review/ in the URL. One review of a Kayak picked up four hits and a plug in cooler received two. Though that's not much, it is an indication someone is reading those reviews.

Any other experience like that?

pops

Pops,
I have a cumulative total of one hit registered for June on the last 6 sporting goods reviews I wrote. Now, if eps would like to cover a car payment for every hit, that might be alright. Grin.
Scott

Still nothing here beyond my two advice pieces...all the others show zero and the couple I posted in June just show the member hits (which aren't even right).

Let's hope with the roll-out of the fix on the 7th, things actually do get fixed!

Happy 4th of July!

Jeff

I wish I could say I was as comfortable. Of course, I'm not as diversified as you are. Money aside, I don't know if anyone is even reading my reviews at this point.
Scott

Though I don't show hits I have received IS on many of my Outdoor and Sports reviews.

How are you guys doin'?

pops

edited to note that this is in reference to the latest June IS figures that came out on Tuesday.

I'm looking now - first glance I saw some.

I'll take a better look later today and let you know.

Jeff

Now that things seem fixed and going forward, I truly hope to see some of you guys writing here again. I understand the frustration you went through not gaining any hits or getting IS.

Now, with the $20-4-10VH and picking up IS, things should be much better around these parts.

pops

Let's see... 10 reviews last month, diversified into 5 different categories. TWO of the ten earned any IS for a total of twenty cents. Five of the ten were in SG/OG and only one got IS. Even two of the ten didn't have the /review/ problem and neither got IS. Thus, it is still a dice roll when writing a review that any IS will be earned; and, if you find it difficult to carve out the time for a block of ten reviews in a month (50 cents/hr., work commitments, family commitments, not making enough at Epinions on an annual basis to declare it a part-time job, etc.), then the 10-4-10 may or may not apply resulting in $0.00 for a review. That's hardly "fixed."

Some of the older reviews in SG/OG did pick up a little IS; but, nothing like they used to. In fact, my total IS was still low compared to past months. (Okay. I admit it was better than last month's. But, last month's was absolutely ludicrous in that it was only a fraction of 'normal.') Yet, I know with certainty that a number of reviews are getting good numbers of hits. I even stumbled on one that had been linked to on a forum at a manufacturer's website the other night - yet the IS I got for that review was only a small percentage of what I was getting. (No. It's not a discontinued product!!!) On top of that, 'tis the season for shoppers in many of the SG/OG products; not to mention the Google placements, etc.

We're not talking about "hits" as an isolated concept, we're talking about IS; which has to, at least in part, be based on hits - hits we're still hoping will be credited properly (which we have no way to measure). Even Yoel's posts qualify with "should" and "hopefully." Fixed? Not yet.

Yes. It looks like they are finally making some effort to at least acknowledge and somewhat 'fix' the issues of hits/IS. Yes, that is a positive. However, it is still far too early to declare "victory," do the dance of joy, and otherwise run around saying "I told you so" (or tout how much others are 'making out' with the fixes as they exist thus far). I think the telling story is going to be next month, since the 'fix' is supposed to be in and that should mean IS is back to something approaching "normal."

Fixed. Not quite yet.

bumping over the spam

Have you guys noticed that hits for July are now showing; at least, according to jump_chump's post, for the 1st through the 9th?

There. Now you have my positive contribution.

bump

spam bump

bump around that freaking spam

I've been following the conversations on this particular board for the last few weeks because I know Sports & Outdoors was hit by the missing hits problem. I've been working the last few weeks to straighten things out. I am pretty sure things are getting better.

I'm posting now because I want to clarify that, except for fixing what was broken, Income Share has not been changed.

The goal is to return IS to what it was before the big SP release late last year.

Garrett's points are good ones, and perhaps once IS is stable we can use them to make IS more 'equitable'. As always, know that my comments are my own opinions, and Yoel and Almar have the last word.

damon

Indeed,
I used to come in here to take a nap and it's been too interesting to sleep lately. It's good though. I appreciate Damon's message as well. Sporting Goods was never a great category in terms of IS, so perhaps things will improve eventually (beyond what they were when things were working properly).

But don't worry, I'm not getting all optimistic or anything, just somewhat less pessimistic. (grin).
Scott

Yep,
It is good to see the hits again. I'm just reserving my optomism until I see the IS that goes with the counts.
Scott