Wow this card is absolutely Amazing! -initial response
Written: Dec 24 '01 (Updated Mar 16 '03)
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Product Rating:
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Pros: Best graphics card I've ever seen, Cost is not as high as other leading competitors.
Cons: ???False benchmarks??? Not sure if I believe the hype. BAD Drivers. Buggy drivers.
The Bottom Line: The best graphics card out in the market. Surprisingly inexpensive for the equipment you get. Beats the latest nvidia cards.
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| oneazn2nv's Full Review: ATI RADEON 8500, (64 MB) AGP Video Card |
Awesome is defined as something that will leave you in awe and wonder. This card is Awesome.
A little background on me
I just started building computers in November of last year. Since then; I've built an AMD K6-2 500 with 45gb hard drive, a voodoo 3 2000 graphics card, 64 megs of ram and an Ethernet 10/100 card; and an AMD xp 1800 on an ecs main board with 256 megs of ram 45 gb hard drive, Radeon 8500 GPU and Ethernet. Why? Because of Everquest and Online gaming. In October 2001 I needed a faster computer to keep up with an online game called everquest. The requirements for this new online game left my old computer (The AMD K6-2) obsolete, and my Video Graphics card (Voodoo 3 2000) Begging to be shot. I searched online for the best Video Card and system I could build within my budget ($800-$900) and be able to play my online games. (Wolfenstien return to the castle, Everquest Shadows of Luclin and even Quake 3 if I felt like it.) In my search I found:
Voodoo 5 5500, Elsa Gladiac (NVidia) Ultra 64 Ge force 2 and the Radeon series.
My search for the better price
In my search I found the Voodoo 5 5500 is better than it's predecessors (about $100- $200), Elsa Gladiac Ultra is better than Voodoo (about $400- $600), and Radeon 8500 is better than Elsa Gladiac Ultra (about $300).
I found a deal at Yahoo shopping for a Radeon 8500 for only $215. I immediately purchased it and got it sent through the mail. (I advise against this online purchase of a Radeon 8500 unless you buy it from a well-known online store or from ATI.COM, the actual manufacturer of the product). I got very lucky. It cost less than retail price but it worked.
The Radeon 8500 (Cue- Orchestra music)
How did ATI do it?
The reason ATI's Radeon 8500 beats the Ge-force TNT, Elsa Gladiac Ultra, and Voodoo series, is this simple: Software and hardware synthesis.
Inginuity
While everyone was in a rat race to see who can have the most MB of ram attached to their boards and who can have the most polygons flying at you per second, ATI developers were finding new ways of shading and forming polygons to use the ram and pure power conservatively. (So it isn't wasting time rendering un-necessary polygons you don't see anyways.)
Want a good example of what the Radeon can do?
Check out a Nintendo Game cube, Super Smash Brothers Melee or almost any other game for that system. The graphics are rendered with the Trueform, Smartshader technology using a Radeon processor.
The Features
(I got this info off the Ati.com website.)
-Powered by the Radeon 8500 GPU and 64 MB of DDR memory for the fastest most advanced 3d graphics on the market
-Features ATI's Trueform Technology
-High Resolution 32-bit 3d gaming up to 2048x1536
-Hyper Z II Technology
-SMOOTHVISION anti-aliasing
-Uses directx8.1
-Pixel Tapestry II, 2.4 gigatexals per second
-Charisma Engine II (T&L) 75 Million triangles/second peak processing ability
-Dual Monitor support. (You can use 2 monitors at once)
-Digital Video Support
For more details on the specs go to ati.com and search the Radeon 8500 section
(Taken from their website)
Trueform - makes the outlines of 3d characters and objects look smoother and more natural.
Hyper z II Technology- Conserves Memory Bandwidth for improved performance in demanding applications boosts effective bandwidth by over 25%.
SMOOTHVISION- anti-aliasing- the most advanced anti- aliasing to eliminate distracting visual artifacts for smoother looking images without serious performance compromise.
Smartshader- Uses directx8.1 to enable more complex and realistic texture and lighting effects.
System Requirements
(From ATI.Com)
-Pentium 4/III/II/Celeron, AMD K6/Athlon or compatible with AGP 2x or AGP 2x/4x universal slot
-64 MB of system Memory
-Installation software requires CD-Rom drive
-DVD playback requires DVD drive
Supports
-Windows 98/98SE, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP
-CRT Monitor 15-pin VGA connector
-TVand VCR: S-video or composite Connector
-DVI-I (flat panel display) Connector
Radeon 8500 to me the consumer.
Being the Avid gamer that I am (I consider avid to be 35+ hours a week spent playing video games. AKA no real life.) I needed something to be able to handle the computer genre.
Installation
I put this into my new computer; the set-up was simple. Plug N play makes everything better doesn't it? I have windows ME installed on my computer, so the Radeon 8500 had no troubles. I got Directx8.1 from the Windows Update site. I searched ati.com for demos to test out my new GPU. I also got Wolfenstien (the new return to the castle game) to see how much my new GPU could handle. The demos didn't really do the GPU justice, the dolphin seemed to be worse using the Trueform than the original wire frame, and I couldn't get the treasure chest to work. So, I took Wolfenstien return to the castle and turned everything (graphics) to the maximum to see what my GPU could do. I looked in awe as there were no skips, the shading was absolutely amazing, the smoothness of the characters, the traces on the bullets as they flew across the screen... It was awesome. I played Everquest with my new GPU and I was amazed at the load times. With the Voodoo 3 2000 my load times were about one and a half minutes. With the new Radeon 8500 the load times were less than 20 seconds. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING.
Performance
I have yet to see my GPU under perform or not be able to handle a job I throw at it.
For the price of $300 compared to the outrageous $400+ of the other brand name competitors, the Radeon 8500 is the obvious choice. The new technology (Software/Hardware) gives the Radeon 8500 the edge over the competition.
Purchasing
I suggest that you buy it retail (That's with computer things in general) so you can return it to a tangible company, or buy it directly from the manufacturer at ATI.com. *Updated, Please see update 12-30-01*
A word of Caution about the online purchasing of computer hardware.
Unless you really, and I mean really, know what you're doing, you should buy retail. I bought an AMD XP 1800, which is supposed to benchmark at 1.53ghz. I purchased it without checking the exact specs and it turned out to be a low end XP 1800 that benchmarked at 1.15ghz. I got my processor from Nuwavepc.com see update 12-30-01so please be wary of online purchasing. The advertisement said I was getting an XP 1800, but it didn't specify the speed of the actual chip so please be careful.
*Update 12-27-01*
My Friend "Warblade" an online Quake 3 arena player held a west coast title with his clan (I forget the name of it) for about a week. He played like mad, he even held practices for his clan every wednesday. I thought he was nuts. I decided to get into the game since it looked like fun, however, my crappy amd k62 and Voodoo 3 2000 couldn't handle the minimum requirements for the game. If I wanted to play it, I had to go to my friend's house and he'd set it up for all of us and have a lan party, but I'd always be the one to "Rotate in" because of my lack of hardware (the computer =). After I got my new comp set up and video card, I installed Quake 3 onto my computer. I played a little, but never went online with it (cuz it was a burnt copy and I don't think I should incriminate myself any longer). I recently bought a copy of Quake 3 (today) and re-installed it onto my comp using the key-code (No longer criminal). The only problem is my Flat mate didn't pay the Phone bill and our DSL got cut!!!! ARGH! I could kill him, but he's in Napa Valley (like 3 hours away from me) and I can't fix it because I need his info, but I can't get ahold of him. (frustrating) So I went to my parents house (they have DSL) to plug in and play. But they only have 1 DSL port, no hub or router. I decided to only go online for E-mail and stuff till my friend fixes the DSL at my place. I think it'll be ggggood... good to um... be away from the internet gaming (Puts down the gun). But I haven't tried playing the Quake 3 online yet. But I will, and I'll update my review again when I do.
*Update 12-28-01*
I just want to express that it feels so good to be able to have all the graphics setting on high and be able to whip around and fire a rocket into a chasing enemy without any skips or lag. (Quake 3 arena) Still awaiting the DSL re-hook up
*Update 12-30-01*
I e-mailed customer service at Nuwavepc.com and They told me the bus speed was set too low and this was the only reason my processor was underperforming. I changed the cpu speed in my bios to 133mhz and it worked. It now performs and reads as an AMD XP 1800. I really didn't know too much about speeds before, but now I do. I guess I didn't get screwed by Nuwavepc.com, they actually did a very good job I just didn't set it up properly. Maybe purchasing online wasn't so bad, the whole system barebone for an AMD processor, ECS motherboard with onboard lan, sound, 56k modem, power supply and case, were $550 at Nuwavepc.com. The radeon I got online also. Shipping was the only hassle, it takes a long time to ship from Florida to California. Good luck with your online shopping.
*Update 12-31-01*
On building my computer
I went online to make my own computer, since the prebuilt ones seemed to be very very costly. The computer I wanted to build had to be cutting edge without the price. At the moment, I believe my computer is pretty much cutting edge, since amd xp1800 outperforms even the new Pentium 4 in gaming. The new xp 1900 just came out, but mine is still cutting edge.
Components, where I got them and how much I paid
barebone package #7 from Nuwavepc.com
Amd xp 1800 (1.53Ghz processor)
ECS K7S5A (supports AMD processors, onboard lan, onboard sound, onboard modem.)
Floppy disk drive.
Power supply and case (not sure the exact details on these)
COST-$550 tax included
I added to this from Cyberpower inc. on yahoo shopping.com
Radeon 8500
COST-213+tax. Free shipping. (had to fax them a copy of my credit card and drivers license before thy would ship it though.)
Added from Fry's Electronics
45 Gig HD
COST-$95
19" Gem monitor
COST-$200
Cambridge Speakers-two speakers one bass tube, adjustable bass, volume.
COST-$29.95
Keyboard
Optical mouse
COST-$40
DVD/CD ROM 64x $80
Total Cost Roughly $1200
If you are simply upgrading an older system, I suggest the barebone from Nuwavepc.com, remove your HD and CD player/DVD player from your old computer, take your old keyboard, mouse and monitor and re-insert into the barebone system. get a new Radeon 8500, and you've got your cutting edge computer for much cheaper than the retail or pre-built costs. I've seen pre-built "cutting edge" computers with less performance capability selling for more money than my custom built one. Custom will save you hundreds of dollars litterally. Don't just take my word for it, read up on what is currently best. You'll find cutting edge usually is that way for a few months and then there's a newer model out. If you are a 3d gamer then keeping up with the cutting edge is a must. Good luck to y'all.
*Update 1-3-02*
I just found my software for my Power DVD plyaer that i haven't installed into my computer yet. I decided to try out the Radeon 8500 with it. I kind of gave up on my dvd player because with my old system when I played it with my voodoo 3 2000 I would get green and red flashes across the screen. When I used the dvd player with the radeon 8500 there were no problems at first. I tried using the radeon's dvd playback feature. It didn't perform as well as I would have hoped. The first time I played it, I had no problems at all. The second time I played the same movie on the Radeon's video playback, it gave me white, green and red flashes. The decoding was horrible. I decided to try to use the power dvd software instead, and it worked fine without any problems. This is the first Job I've seen that the Radeon 8500 couldn't handle. I was very disapointed. However you can still use the power dvd function and it uses the video card to decode anyways. Maybe I just need to update my Power DVD driver for my Radeon card. Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated. (Still no DSL ARghh!! I could kill him now)
*Update 1-5-02*
Is there a limit to finding out better things for my video card? My friend suggested that I try a higher resolution for Quake 3. I've been playing on 800x600 and he suggested that I do the maximum setting that my monitor can handle. (1600x1200) I agreed. To my suprise, the resolution was astounding. My other friend (who didn't know we were messing with the resolution) walked into the room and said. "Woah, That's awesome." The change was extremely noticable. We proceded to play to see if we could get it to skip or lag, there was no lag and no skips. I will say it one more time. Absolutely amazing. (BTW my friend is a hardcore Nvidia fan. I think he just turned from the dark side.)
*Update 1-12-02*
I tested out Half Life with the settings on high and there were absolutely no problems with speed. Load times took less than 3 seconds between different areas in the game. I don't know what the other review on the radeon 8500 was talking about. I think it may be a misleading review. Oh well, everyone has their opinions, even if mine is better =). I also bought Baulders Gate (The origional) to quench my evercrack withdrawl (ArGHH!! still no DSL we sent the check in on tuesday.) And set the graphics to the highest (it's a 2d game so it doesn't put a heavy load on the video card) and it worked fine without any problems. I just recently heard of reviews talking about the radeon 8500 cheating on it's benchmarks. I'm not sure how much is true, or how much is due to the new hyper z II technology, but if anyone knows anything about this please comment.
*Update March 28 2002*
Finally back online. I played online Quake and sure enough there was lag and skips. I tried to download new drivers for my radeon gpu, but none would take. I am very upset at how buggy the drivers are. I am suprised ATI would do this to it's customers. Another incident occured since I got my DSL back, Sony online and Nvidia have come together to make everquest better for Nvidia owners. For the first month ATI users were experiencing difficulties far more extreme to that of the Nvidia users. Even after a few months when I got my DSL I still noticed ATI users had problems. Now that Nvidia is in bed with Sony online, who is in bed with Pentium users, I kinda wish i would have forked over the extra $200. Well, Nah maybe not. Fight the powers that be, buy 3rd party. =)
*Update* 03/16/03
I bought my friends Radeon 8500 LE for 80 dollars. I stuck it into my old computer (650 Pentium II) and played everquest with it. It was run-able, and the video card definately helped. I have finally been able to install a better driver for my Radeon 8500 and it works fine. Some of the DVD features aren't too great though.
"I I I Gotta have my Evercrack"
-Oneazn2nv
Recommended:
Yes
Amount Paid (US$): 215
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Epinions.com ID:
oneazn2nv
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Location: Castro Valley, CA, USA
Reviews written: 32
Trusted by: 3 members
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