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Re: Equifax is beyond useless (Reply to this comment)
by bayhouse
On 3/19/03 I filed my suit against all CRAs, Fair Isaac, numerous creditors and collectors, the FCC, FTC, FRB Richmond.
The suit is published at http://forum.creditcourt.com/discus/messages/803/803.html and there are several other suits by consumers.
I can't understand how Equifax can NOT release your report - how do you get credit?
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May 02 '03
8:53 pm PDT
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Equifax is beyond useless (Reply to this comment)
by epbc
Of the four major bureaus, Equifax is by far the worst IMO.
In '95 or '96 I ended up suing them because they didn't seem to understand the difference between 'date of last activity' and 'date of original delinquency'. They left an account on my report well beyond the 7-year reporting period because I had made an interim payment on the account. They have it in their heads that the 7-year period runs from the date of last activity.
After months of being nice, I finally sued. We settles out of court & to this day, Equifax will not release my report to anyone. I have to go through their legal department to get a copy.
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May 01 '03
3:21 pm PDT
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Re: Re:+Re:+Mistakes+--+you+want+mistakes+--+ (Reply to this comment)
by bayhouse
From my previous comment:
But, just to make it even clearer, I know amended the review to read:
"The only way to get the FICO and Empirica scores is to apply for a mortgage with a broker/lender ..."
For the record, the only change in my review was the addition of the words "FICO and Empirica."
Of course, anyone who actually read the review would have known that I was only talking about FICO and Empirica scores, as I had stated that the Beacon score can be ordered on-line. It IS after all the title of an entire section.
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Sep 11 '01
7:37 pm PDT
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Let the reader decide (Reply to this comment)
by bayhouse
That's all I got to say :)
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Sep 11 '01
7:28 pm PDT
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Re: Re:+Mistakes+--+you+want+mistakes+--+ (Reply to this comment)
by Arthur.Rubin,  in Personal Finance
Thinking it over, I haven't made myself clear. You're still wrong, though.
Mistake 1 rephrased
You've rephrased your review also, so I don't feel to bad about this.
You now imply (in the review) that the FICO score is the Fair Isaac (Classic) score based on Experian data. In your comment, you state:
Fair Isaac is the company that developed the FICO, Beacon, and Empirica scores.
They named the Experian score after the abbreviation for Fair Isaac Company. FICO.
For years Fair Isaac scores were generically referred to as FICO scores, although technically it's only the Experian score.
The reality is that the Fair Isaac web site (http://www.fairisaac.com redirected to http://www.strategymachine.com) has a link to myFICO.com, in which it is said that the FICO score is available with the Equifax credit profile. (BTW, both the fairisaac and myfico sites were significantly modified in the past week.)
http://www.myfico.com/ states that you can Get your FICO score, your Equifax Credit Profile and an explanation of your score.
If you click the MORE INFO button, that page states that the Score Power Report includes Your current FICO score — the credit score lenders use to measure your credit risk. Score Power delivers the BEACON® score, the FICO score based on your Equifax Credit Profile.
I haven't checked who runs myfico.com, but at somebody there thinkgs that FICO is generic and BEACON® is the FICO score associated with Equifax. From the FAQs at myfico.com --
The FICO scores are known as BEACON® at Equifax, EMPIRICA® at Trans Union and the Experian/Fair, Isaac Risk Score at Experian.
So you're closer than I thought, but still wrong.
Mistake 2
Towards the bottom of http://www.creditaccuracy.com/ you'll find Greg Fisher's attempt to get a COMPLETE report out of Trans Union.
Where? I can't find it on the front page, anyway.
Continuing, you wrote...
Now, WHAT EXACTLY makes you think that Equifax does not store the inquiry coding and the account classification?
What makes you think that they do? There was one auto inquiry on my last credit report, and it was not coded differently.
WHY does Fair Isaac go through great length to add the inquiry deduplication routine to their software AFTER a public outcry?
Did they? A google search for Fair Isaac deduplication provides only one match on an internal Fair Isaac page, referring to deduplication of users on a single account. A google search for credit score deduplication has several matches, but only one showing a different credit scoring company with deduplication of inquiries. There's no match for Fair Isaac on cnn.com. I'm not going to search the Congressional Record without a better choice of search terms -- and committee reports do not necessarily appear there, anyway.
If they did, I don't know why. I assume it's because some auto dealers request multiple credit reports though multiple lenders.
People were OUTRAGED that they would be punished for auto loan and mortgage shopping. Fair Issac quickly came up with the inquiry deduplication routine.
So?
Are you accusing Fair Isaac of deliberately misleading the American public as well as legislators?
Well, yes, if your earlier statements are correct. It seems more likely than that Equifax is deliberately violating the FCRA.
...
I'm not a big fan of Fair Isaac, BUT, given my own extensive experience with scoring, I believe that deduplication in fact exists and subsequently the data required to deduplicate MUST exist too.
Why?
Your point on mistake 3 was well taken. I withdraw it, although I may reinstate it if I can confirm information from one of my current (recent) lenders.
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Sep 10 '01
1:24 pm PDT
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Re: Mistakes+--+you+want+mistakes+--+ (Reply to this comment)
by bayhouse
Arthur, you wrote
Mistake 1
You stated that FICO was (and is) an Equifax score.
I'm reposting from my first comment:
"Fair Isaac is the company that developed the FICO, Beacon, and Empirica scores.
They named the Experian score after the abbreviation for Fair Isaac Company. FICO.
For years Fair Isaac scores were generically referred to as FICO scores, although technically it's only the Experian score.
Last year Fair Isaac announced the release of the NEW NextGen scores, and they started referring to the "FICO" scores as CLASSIC scores.
I've been trying to change my 6 year habit of calling them FICO scores now. It's tough, but it makes a lot more sense. Just like you're confused, most people are. And of course, that's the intent."
I STILL have many of my own URLs containing "FICO" -- NOT Classic, and it's unlikely that I'll change it anytime soon. I don't think I've ever seen anyone else use the term "Classic" other than Fair Isaac.
I certainly do NOT state anywhere that "FICO is an Equifax score."
Equifax's BEACON score is a FICO score, and a Classic score, as FICO and Classic are identical is this usage of the word FICO - the name used for all Fair Isaac Classic scores: Beacon, Empirica, FICO.
If you have ANY questions on this, please let me know.
Also, you might want to send a SHARED letter to Fair Isaac requesting clarification at
http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,173000-108-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html
And of course please DO post any quotes from my review when Epinions works again - if the above didn't resolve the issue.
Mistake 2
Perhaps I wasn't clear why you're wrong before. The FCRA requires CRAs to provide all the information in the file. It does not require them to file all the information they receive. My suggestion is that Equifax, at least, does not file the inquiry type, including whether it is an auto inquiry.
If that is the case, there's no FCRA violation in Equifax not providing that information to Fair Isaac (or their computer program), and Fair Isaac cannot deduplicate the auto inquiries before calculating the credit score.
Towards the bottom of http://www.creditaccuracy.com/ you'll find Greg Fisher's attempt to get a COMPLETE report out of Trans Union.
Now, WHAT EXACTLY makes you think that Equifax does not store the inquiry coding and the account classification?
WHY does Fair Isaac go through great length to add the inquiry deduplication routine to their software AFTER a public outcry?
People were OUTRAGED that they would be punished for auto loan and mortgage shopping. Fair Issac quickly came up with the inquiry deduplication routine.
Are you accusing Fair Isaac of deliberately misleading the American public as well as legislators?
There is NO deduplication on Equifax reports?
I'll be filing my law suits against the bureaus next week.
I'm not a big fan of Fair Isaac, BUT, given my own extensive experience with scoring, I believe that deduplication in fact exists and subsequently the data required to deduplicate MUST exist too.
Mistake 3
I haven't mentioned this before, as it relates more to your comments on netKat's review and the bad Q-space review, but, whatever the reason, the lender for our 1993 house purchased required us to close all but a few outstanding credit cards. I think they wanted us to only retain one Visa/MasterCard and the Discover card. I think we eventually kept 4 or 5 cards. If this doesn't improve the score, why did they insist on it?
Arthur: 1993!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Check you calendar, it's 2001!!
1993: I was a mortgage broker getting my first-time buyers' and middle to low income clients' mortgages APPROVED. Credit scores did NOT exist for mortgages!
I think it was in 1994 when my clients first got turned down for those idiotic scores - no matter how much documentation they supplied, they got no loan.
Arthur, I hope that as a former LICENSED tax preparer, you can understand how IMPORTANT it is to monitor changes closely.
Did you prepare 1998 taxes based on the 1990 tax law?
Unfortunately, there is NO Pub 17 for credit scores. Fair Isaac's formula is secret, and much of what I know about scoring is from my own experiences and the many postings at my forum.
I despise people like Netkat for their willful disinformation - causing people to lose not only money, but sometimes their homes and families.
When you are an EXPERT, you have an OBLIGATION to stay CURRENT.
Netkat even posted at my forum, she can't claim she doesn't know. She makes a choice to ignore today's awful credit environment and to spread corporate propaganda instead of the truth.
Affidavit on credit report format
I posted at http://www.bayhouse.com/credit-forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104 some more details on the format and I definitely agree with you.
Next week I'll try to get a "sample" new format on the web - am really busy the next few days.
When people can't find what's wrong with their reports they won't dispute. And that's the intent of the credit bureaus.
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Sep 08 '01
1:54 pm PDT
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Mistakes -- you want mistakes -- (Reply to this comment)
by Arthur.Rubin, in Personal Finance
For whatever reason, I can't read the original review at the moment...my browser crashes. So this is based on my recollection of the review and the previous comments.
Mistake 1
You stated that FICO was (and is) an Equifax score. I thought it was generic Fair Isaac, (which I cannot yet disprove from the information available on the web without ordering scores), but the FICO score is now available from Equifax, according to both the Fair Isaac and Equifax web sites. I wouldn't have considered this an important mistake, but you seem to.
Mistake 2
Perhaps I wasn't clear why you're wrong before. The FCRA requires CRAs to provide all the information in the file. It does not require them to file all the information they receive. My suggestion is that Equifax, at least, does not file the inquiry type, including whether it is an auto inquiry.
If that is the case, there's no FCRA violation in Equifax not providing that information to Fair Isaac (or their computer program), and Fair Isaac cannot deduplicate the auto inquiries before calculating the credit score.
Mistake 3
I haven't mentioned this before, as it relates more to your comments on netKat's review and the bad Q-space review, but, whatever the reason, the lender for our 1993 house purchased required us to close all but a few outstanding credit cards. I think they wanted us to only retain one Visa/MasterCard and the Discover card. I think we eventually kept 4 or 5 cards. If this doesn't improve the score, why did they insist on it?
Note that the lender does have income information, although the CRAs don't, so they could use a score which includes that information, as well as credit usage, as factors. I don't know whether that's also a Fair Isaac (or FICO) score.
Affidavit
Thinking it over, you have a point -- but let's take this discussion to E-mail. (I'm not a rocket scientist, but I was in 1975. I'm now working on a GPS (satellite)-based navigation system for airplanes, expecting FAA approval in early 2003.)
I think the best format from the consumer point-of-view would be a somewhat customizable one line per card/line report. I'd suggest the entries include the creditor's name (possibly truncated), date opened (so the consumer can check for duplicates), date of last report, ownership flag (joint, individual, etc.), status flag (open, closed, paid, etc.), credit limit, current credit used, a 24 month payment history (ala the old TRW reports such as 1-1123111111111-1), and a pointer to a more detailed entry like Experian's current format.
Perhaps the consumer could request other (or different) columns in the one-line report.
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Sep 08 '01
8:36 am PDT
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The courtesy of quoting any "mistakes" would be greatly appreciated! (Reply to this comment)
by bayhouse
Arthur, you wrote
I'll write a few follow-up comments, then I'll probably stop unless you make more mistakes.
I can NOT find any mistakes!
myFico.com, which provides the FICO score, is associated with Equifax, not Experian as you claimed.
HUH????? Where?
It would help a lot if you had the courtesy to copy that reference. I sure can't find it.
I did a search for myfico, it wasn't found at all in my review. I don't wish to include it either.
You go on to claim
... a quick scan of their web sites suggests that Experian's score is a Fair Isaac score, while Trans Union's score (if any) appears to be one of their own, probably not related to Fair Isaac, nor given out to other inquirers -- in other words, as useful as the Q-space score.
You continue to state that Experian sells Fair Isaac scores. How could I possibly convince you that you're wrong?
Order your Experian score and find out for yourself!
Readers are going to have to decide who to believe, I am getting very worried about the space program.
You go on to claim
There is nothing in law requiring CR's to include all the information they receive in their reports.
Repost from my previous comment:
From http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra.htm#609:
"§ 609. Disclosures to consumers [15 U.S.C. § 1681g]
(a) Information on file; sources; report recipients. Every consumer reporting agency shall, upon request, and subject to 610(a)(1) [§ 1681h], clearly and accurately disclose to the consumer:
[b](1) All information in the consumer's file at the time of the request,[/b] except that nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to require a consumer reporting agency to disclose to a consumer any information concerning credit scores or any other risk scores or predictors relating to the consumer."
All information in the consumer's file at the time of the request
All information in the consumer's file at the time of the request
All information in the consumer's file at the time of the request
Do you see any ambiguity? I don't. ALL, ALL, ALL
I am going to sue for ALL information in MY file. It's the win win law suit:
Even if I lose, it's just MORE EVIDENCE that we need a new FAIR Credit Reporting Act.
You didn't answer my previous question:
"Would you be willing to supply an affidavit about the Equifax format?"
Your posting here isn't going to change a thing. ACTION has to be taken.
Are you willing to help?
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Sep 07 '01
12:41 pm PDT
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Very well (Reply to this comment)
by Arthur.Rubin, in Personal Finance
I'll write a few follow-up comments, then I'll probably stop unless you make more mistakes.
CR Format
Preferred Format
If you must know, I would prefer a format in which there is a single column in which the status of the account, and only the status of the account, appears. Among the three report formats, Experian comes closest to that, although the added comments (both consumer and creditor) also appear in that column. Equifax DID have some full text fields extending under the status column.
Common report format
Would you either require or ban Experian's extended 24 month credit usage history? (See below for a related comment.) If the detailed content of the report were specified in the law, then the law could specify the format those contents "shall" have. I'd like to see that in the inquiries section, but, even there, some CRA's have more information than others.
Fair Isaac report names
myFico.com, which provides the FICO score, is associated with Equifax, not Experian as you claimed. If you don't rewrite that, I'm going to lower my rating to Somewhat Helpful, as you claim that's important, and my rating system states that SH is the rating for a review with important incorrect information. As I haven't ordered scores from anyone, I can neither confirm or deny the names there, although a quick scan of their web sites suggests that Experian's score is a Fair Isaac score, while Trans Union's score (if any) appears to be one of their own, probably not related to Fair Isaac, nor given out to other inquirers -- in other words, as useful as the Q-space score.
CR required information
There is nothing in law requiring CR's to include all the information they receive in their reports. For example, if a creditor provides a 48-month payment history, and the CR chooses only to provide the last 24 months, I see no legal problem with that, as long as they provide no more information to creditors than to the consumer. (The creditors would probably like the report to have only the information removed that is required to be removed by law, but that depends on the contract between the inquirer and the CRA.)
Similarly, I see nothing requiring the CRA's to keep the information about whether an inquiry is an auto inquiry in the report. If they don't tell you as consumer, then the cannot (legally) tell other inquirers or use the information in the score calculations, but I don't see that they have to keep it -- even if the auto inquirers do report the fact that it is an auto inquiry.
In other words, if the CR does not record whether an inquiry is an auto inquiry in the report, then that information cannot be used in the score (unless the inquirer can be recognized by means external to the report as an auto dealer) to deduplicate the inquiries. Fair Isaac is probably wrong (although not subject to the FCRA) in stating that they deduplicate auto inquiries, because it's up to the CRA to tell then that it is an auto inquiry.
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Sep 07 '01
6:40 am PDT
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Arthur, since you feel so strongly about the Equifax format, I got an idea: (Reply to this comment)
by bayhouse
Arthur, with YOUR credentials, you'd be the perfect consumer to DEMAND a change in the format for consumer credit disclosures.
From your profile:
"Expert qualifications:
Ph.D. in Mathematics from Caltech (1978)
Novell CNE (1995-2000)
California Income Tax preparer (1990-1997)
Computer programmer since 1970
I'm presently working for a Fullerton, California aerospace contractor."
Does that make you a rocket scientist?
Would you be willing to supply an affidavit about the Equifax format?
I think ALL THREE formats should be changed to be at least very similar.
We need concise and easy to read credit reports, so that everybody can understand what's reported about them.
I'd like to contact legislators and the FTC to initiate changes in the report formats.
Someone with your credentials would be absolutely PERFECT!
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Sep 06 '01
4:39 pm PDT
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Brainwashed by Netkat? (Reply to this comment)
by bayhouse
1) The Equifax format:
As I stated previously, my clients who do NOT regularly review reports miss FEWER derogs on the Equifax snail mailed report. While it DOES take time to look at the codes, the OVERALL time spent on each report is LESS for Equifax.
Why would I change my review to "Arthur Rubin, who never actually saw an Equifax report with derogatory data, decided that the Equifax format is difficult." Why should I do that?
2,3) You wrote:
After looking at the Fair Isaac web site (http://www.fairisaac.com/index.html), it appears that we may both be wrong. To quote (an image) at that site: Get your own FICO® score in minutes! Click here to go to myFICO.com. The graphic above that quote says you get it at Equifax.
Equifax's web site also says they provide a FICO score, while Experian and Trans Union seem not to refer to FICO scores, and probably use their own scoring system.
I wrote in my Equifax review:
The mortgage credit reports contain ONLY Fair Isaac's Beacon, Empirica and FICO scores.
The only way to get those scores is to apply for a mortgage with a broker/lender ....
"those" referred to Empirica and FICO scores. I thought it was very clear from
You can order a single Score Power package, your Equifax credit report with the Beacon Score, for $12.95.
and my other extensive comments that the Beacon score CAN be ordered at Equifax.
But, just to make it even clearer, I know amended the review to read:
"The only way to get the FICO and Empirica scores is to apply for a mortgage with a broker/lender ..."
Then you really stepped in it:
My reference that FICO scores are available about (although not necessarily from) any of the three CRA's is from netKat, who should know, having worked for a credit card issuer.
Arthur, the reason why I spent so much time on this Equifax review is because Wannabe "experts" like Netkat are spreading corporate propaganda like their getting paid for it.
You might want to read my comments on Netkat's Equifax review at http://bayhouse.epinions.com/finc-review-5680-31D905DF-3A58C61B-prod2/show_~allcom
People like Netkat are the source of all evil.
They sell their soul and their mother for a few bucks. It's despicable. All I can do is write my own reviews and post my comments on her reviews.
4)You wrote 4. Fair Isaac may state (and actually do, to the best of their ability) that they deduplicate auto inquiries within a 14 day period, but the CRA's are not required to code the fact that it IS an auto inquiry. That's a matter between Fair Isaac and the CRA, which is not covered by FCRA.
Not true. It is a violation of the FCRA.
And, I do intend to sue the CRAs for NOT providing me with ALL data as required by the FCRA.
As long as I do not have ALL information reported about me, I cannot dispute these incorrectly coded inquiries. Subsequently, my scores will be lower and I will be declined or pay higher rates and fees.
Only if auto inquirers are required to report that they are auto inquirers ...
They are not. However, Fair Isaac claims that ALL auto inquiries are coded as such. Until we all get COMPLETE credit reports, we can NOT prove Fair Isaac wrong.
From http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra.htm#609:
"§ 609. Disclosures to consumers [15 U.S.C. § 1681g]
(a) Information on file; sources; report recipients. Every consumer reporting agency shall, upon request, and subject to 610(a)(1) [§ 1681h], clearly and accurately disclose to the consumer:
(1) All information in the consumer's file at the time of the request, except that nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to require a consumer reporting agency to disclose to a consumer any information concerning credit scores or any other risk scores or predictors relating to the consumer."
CRAs are not required to give out credit scores.
Does it mean that because data is used in credit scores, I am NOT allowed to see it?
Because just about ALL data is used in credit scores, the CRAs can send us a blank sheet of paper? I don't think so.
Arthur, you own real estate and apparently are a professional making good money. An incorrectly coded inquiry is probably NOT going to hurt you.
It's the working stiffs who pay the higher rates and fees.
And you don't HAVE to care about them.
It's a CHOICE we all make. Do we care or do we sell out?
I quote Alexander Solzehnitsyn:
In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers... we are ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.
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Sep 06 '01
4:28 pm PDT
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Re: You+"think"+and+"read+somewhere"+-+where's+the+FACTS???? (Reply to this comment)
by Arthur.Rubin, in Personal Finance
OK, I didn't fully research it...many of my "facts" were based on Expert/Advisor/Top Reviewer reviews here on Epinions. Nonetheless, the facts I have now checked show further problems.
1. The Equifax format.
The question is to whom is the report useful. For an expert, I agree with you, although the old TRW format (one line per credit relationship, but less information), was even easier to scan. For the consumer, as far as I can tell (not having any actual negative entries on my own report), the only way to tell that an entry is negative is the R code. I don't recall the Equifax format, but, in the old TRW format, larger numbers are bad.
2,3. You wrote: Most creditors and many auto and home insurers determine your rates and fees according to your Fair Isaac credit scores.
I disagree: But that's FICO (which you claim is an Experian score), not Beacon (which you claim as Equifax), Emperica (which you claim as Trans Union), or ISAAC (which another poster reported). Furthermore, FICO (and probably Beacon, if different) scores can be applied to any of the three credit reports.
(I'm sorry about miscopying Empirica as Emperica.) Well, I didn't research that fully. After looking at the Fair Isaac web site (http://www.fairisaac.com/index.html), it appears that we may both be wrong. To quote (an image) at that site: Get your own FICO® score in minutes! Click here to go to myFICO.com. The graphic above that quote says you get it at Equifax.
Equifax's web site also says they provide a FICO score, while Experian and Trans Union seem not to refer to FICO scores, and probably use their own scoring system.
My reference that FICO scores are available about (although not necessarily from) any of the three CRA's is from netKat, who should know, having worked for a credit card issuer.
4. Fair Isaac may state (and actually do, to the best of their ability) that they deduplicate auto inquiries within a 14 day period, but the CRA's are not required to code the fact that it IS an auto inquiry. That's a matter between Fair Isaac and the CRA, which is not covered by FCRA. Only if auto inquirers are required to report that they are auto inquirers (there's a space on the request form for reason, but it's not at all clear that you are required to be specific as to what the reason is -- I know, because I, as a landlord, run a credit check on prospective tenants), and the CRA is required to pass the information along to Fair Isaac (or their scoring program), is there a problem which is covered by law.
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Sep 06 '01
12:39 pm PDT
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You "think" and "read somewhere" - where's the FACTS???? (Reply to this comment)
by bayhouse
Arthur, much appreciate your comments, and I'll reply point by point.
1) The Equifax format
I LOVE IT! I review reports frequently. I also found that my clients who review their reports for the first time tend to MISS many derogs on the lengthy TU and Experian reports, they do better with Equifax.
If we both were to review bankruptcy reports for derogs, balances, open accounts, type of accounts, and you looked at Experian and I had the Equifax, I'd be done before you even got a quarter through the report.
If ALL reports had the Equifax format, I could cut my credit review and analysis fee by at least 50%.
2) I wrote: Most creditors and many auto and home insurers determine your rates and fees according to your Fair Isaac credit scores.
You disagree: But that's FICO (which you claim is an Experian score), not Beacon (which you claim as Equifax), Emperica (which you claim as Trans Union), or ISAAC (which another poster reported). Furthermore, FICO (and probably Beacon, if different) scores can be applied to any of the three credit reports.
You keep saying "claim claim claim" It's fact, fact, fact. BTW, it's spelled Empirica, not Emperica - important if you're actually going to do some real research on scores.
YOU wrote and Equifax review! Didn't you go to their site and read about the Beacon score?
THIS is pretty funny: or ISAAC (which another poster reported). At least I get some laughs too.
Fair Isaac is the company that developed the FICO, Beacon, and Empirica scores.
They named the Experian score after the abbreviation for Fair Isaac Company. FICO.
For years Fair Isaac scores were generically referred to as FICO scores, although technically it's only the Experian score.
Last year Fair Isaac announced the release of the NEW NextGen scores, and they started referring to the "FICO" scores as CLASSIC scores.
I've been trying to change my 6 year habit of calling them FICO scores now. It's tough, but it makes a lot more sense. Just like you're confused, most people are. And of course, that's the intent.
I am 100% correct. You can read it yourself at www.fairisaac.com, there is EXTENSIVE information on their scores. And of course, the Equifax site has much of that info too, since they're selling the Fair Isaac Beacon score.
If you'd like to ask Fair Isaac instead of reading their site, you can go to http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,173000-108-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html and write them a Planetfeedback.com letter.
3) Not exactly correct, as I understand it. I think you can contact Fair Isaac directly, and give them permission to contact the credit reporting agencies. It still does show up as a query, however.
Am I the village idiot?
I have been researching Fair Isaac's scores since 1994, attended their seminar, and spent a great deal of time at their site.
Not only have I never seen any reference to them giving out scores, BUT I have been told by their staff that they will NOT provide scores to consumers.
I monitor several credit boards and read literally thousands of postings, not ONE person ever got scores from Fair Isaac.
Please give me their number, their e-mail, whatever it takes, I WILL try to get my scores and report the outcome.
4) The list of inquiry types that are not reported to creditors (which you quoted) is listed. As far as they are concerned, that is the proper break-down. The inquiries reported to creditors could be in a separate section, but that goes along with their secret code process (translations listed elsewhere in the report).
You don't get it. I'm talking about Fair Isaac's deduplication for auto and mortgage inquiries.
I quote from my review:
Why aren't they disclosing how inquiries are coded for credit scoring?
Example:
Under Fair Isaac's inquiry deduping system, all auto inquiries within a 14 day period are supposed to be counted as ONE inquiry. However, I believe that many auto inquiries aren't coded as such. Of course there's no way of knowing for sure, since that's another piece of credit data withheld from us by ALL CRAs.
MORE details on inquiry deduplication are at http://www.bayhouse.com/credit-forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67
Arthur, you are telling me that my review contains wrong information.
Based on WHAT?
You "read something here" and you "think" but you don't have a single bit of evidence.
Do you really expect me to change my review based on what you THINK or READ at some unidentified source?
I want my review to be THE most accurate review, NOT hearsay.
I looked at your profile:
Expert qualifications:
Ph.D. in Mathematics from Caltech (1978)
Novell CNE (1995-2000)
California Income Tax preparer (1990-1997)
Computer programmer since 1970
This doesn't make sense. Did you prepare your clients' taxes based an what you "heard" or read "somewhere?"
You have a Ph.D in Mathematics, and you believe anything anyone says without checking?
I quit math after calculus one. I could easily get As in the tests by memorizing the proofs, but I had a tough time developing the proof on my own. I guess my brain reached the limits.
This is an awful lot easier. PLEASE post some URLS from the FAIR ISAAC site to prove your points, and of course post the procedure for getting my scores from Fair Isaac.
Thanks much!!!
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Sep 05 '01
11:16 pm PDT
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A lot of good material... (Reply to this comment)
by Arthur.Rubin, in Personal Finance
unfortunately, some of it is wrong. (Your comments will be in italics.)
Equifax uses a much better format than Experian and Trans Union: concise and easy to read.
...and hard to understand. See my review.
Most creditors and many auto and home insurers determine your rates and fees according to your Fair Isaac credit scores.
But that's FICO (which you claim is an Experian score), not Beacon (which you claim as Equifax), Emperica (which you claim as Trans Union), or ISAAC (which another poster reported). Furthermore, FICO (and probably Beacon, if different) scores can be applied to any of the three credit reports.
The mortgage credit reports contain ONLY Fair Isaac's Beacon, Empirica and FICO scores.
The only way to get those scores is to apply for a mortgage with a broker/lender who will give you a copy of the report with the scores.
Not exactly correct, as I understand it. I think you can contact Fair Isaac directly, and give them permission to contact the credit reporting agencies. It still does show up as a query, however.
Most inquiries stay on your reports for two years. However, only inquiries during the previous 12 months lower your credit scores, unless deduped in Fair Isaac's credit scoring software or designated as by Equifax as:
...
WHY aren't they identifying the inquiries that DO count against you in a special section?
The list of inquiry types that are not reported to creditors (which you quoted) is listed. As far as they are concerned, that is the proper break-down. The inquiries reported to creditors could be in a separate section, but that goes along with their secret code process (translations listed elsewhere in the report).
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Sep 05 '01
5:20 pm PDT
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